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richardhutnik said:

I am going to leave what is intended to be my last word on neurotheology in this thread by leaving this video with a speech by Waldman.  Watch and decide for yourself about it:

The value in this is found in what you can personally get out of it rather  than try to argue what it is NOT saying.

The information presented in the video is of no value to me. Thanks for posting it.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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www.skeptic.com seems like an interesting website. Thanks for the link. Yeah I agree the writer in the website does embarass Zeitgeist on many points and I agree the conspiracy theories are whack and divert attention away from real issues affecting all of us.



Badassbab said:

www.skeptic.com seems like an interesting website. Thanks for the link. Yeah I agree the writer in the website does embarass Zeitgeist on many points and I agree the conspiracy theories are whack and divert attention away from real issues affecting all of us.

A problem with a movie like Zeitgeist is the creator of it was swinging for the fences too much in went way too much off the beaten track to get there.  It demands him be too much of an expert in too many areas, for it to be pulled off.  I know one person who fell for it, and then became as obnoxious as a new "born-again Christian" at a church that guiltifies him if he doesn't do the three foot rule with his new knowledge.  This happened right after he went into "The Obama Deception" and I told him to leave Alex Jones alone, before he got lost down the rabbit hole.

Anyhow, it is best to stick with more practical stuff.  What I left on neurotheology can be of use even to atheists.



richardhutnik said:

A problem with a movie like Zeitgeist is the creator of it was swinging for the fences too much in went way too much off the beaten track to get there.  It demands him be too much of an expert in too many areas, for it to be pulled off.  I know one person who fell for it, and then became as obnoxious as a new "born-again Christian" at a church that guiltifies him if he doesn't do the three foot rule with his new knowledge.  This happened right after he went into "The Obama Deception" and I told him to leave Alex Jones alone, before he got lost down the rabbit hole.

Anyhow, it is best to stick with more practical stuff.  What I left on neurotheology can be of use even to atheists.

Nope it can't.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
richardhutnik said:

A problem with a movie like Zeitgeist is the creator of it was swinging for the fences too much in went way too much off the beaten track to get there.  It demands him be too much of an expert in too many areas, for it to be pulled off.  I know one person who fell for it, and then became as obnoxious as a new "born-again Christian" at a church that guiltifies him if he doesn't do the three foot rule with his new knowledge.  This happened right after he went into "The Obama Deception" and I told him to leave Alex Jones alone, before he got lost down the rabbit hole.

Anyhow, it is best to stick with more practical stuff.  What I left on neurotheology can be of use even to atheists.

Nope it can't.

So then, you argue that any findings in the area of neurotheology merely support there is a God.  Buddhists are non-theists, and it was shown the repeated meditations by them had a positive effect.  Even the end of last video I posted in this thread gives people a question to ask yourself, and to meditate on that.  If it can't, then it either does serve exclusively as an argument for God, or it won't of value for you, because you refuse to for personal reasons.  Anyhow, this hard stance is where you likely need to be in you life at this point.



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richardhutnik said:

So then, you argue that any findings in the area of neurotheology merely support there is a God.  Buddhists are non-theists, and it was shown the repeated meditations by them had a positive effect.  Even the end of last video I posted in this thread gives people a question to ask yourself, and to meditate on that.  If it can't, then it either does serve exclusively as an argument for God, or it won't of value for you, because you refuse to for personal reasons.  Anyhow, this hard stance is where you likely need to be in you life at this point.

Nope, on the contrary if anything those findings show the opposite, especially 'cause those positive effects apply to people of all religions, esentially saying that they have nothing to do with the religions themselves, but rather a specific mindset. The problem I have with this is that the "scientists" that work in that field belive that there's actually a reality other than the material one (a reality inside the brain or something of the sort). Plus, I'm not religious, I don't meditate or whatever those religous people do, so neurotheology doesn't really help me now does it?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
richardhutnik said:

So then, you argue that any findings in the area of neurotheology merely support there is a God.  Buddhists are non-theists, and it was shown the repeated meditations by them had a positive effect.  Even the end of last video I posted in this thread gives people a question to ask yourself, and to meditate on that.  If it can't, then it either does serve exclusively as an argument for God, or it won't of value for you, because you refuse to for personal reasons.  Anyhow, this hard stance is where you likely need to be in you life at this point.

Nope, on the contrary if anything those findings show the opposite, especially 'cause those positive effects apply to people of all religions, esentially saying that they have nothing to do with the religions themselves, but rather a specific mindset. The problem I have with this is that the "scientists" that work in that field belive that there's actually a reality other than the material one (a reality inside the brain or something of the sort). Plus, I'm not religious, I don't meditate or whatever those religous people do, so neurotheology doesn't really help me now does it?

If this is how the mind works, then this is how the mind works.  The human mind does filter selectively based on how it is conditioned, and what your mind says is going on is what you experience and feel is real, thus the need to speak of a different "reality" (chunks of life is subjective).  And, for this and other reasons, I said that neurotheology would be of value to atheists.  Well, you then reply that is not true, because it isn't of value to YOU personally. 

The idea of meditation helping or not either is true or isn't.  Just because you don't want to do it doesn't meant it couldn't help you if you did it.



richardhutnik said:

If this is how the mind works, then this is how the mind works.  The human mind does filter selectively based on how it is conditioned, and what your mind says is going on is what you experience and feel is real, thus the need to speak of a different "reality" (chunks of life is subjective).  And, for this and other reasons, I said that neurotheology would be of value to atheists.  Well, you then reply that is not true, because it isn't of value to YOU personally. 

The idea of meditation helping or not either is true or isn't.  Just because you don't want to do it doesn't meant it couldn't help you if you did it.

Because I don't meditate, the fact that it can or can't help me is irrelevant (though quite frankly I didn't know up till now that meditation had anything to do with religion, nor that Christians meditate).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Sorry, posted in the wrong thread



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

lestatdark said:

I had to tell my parents, who are mildly Christian based, that I had converted to the Wicca religion. It wasn't nice and pretty at the start, and I had to deal with a load of bad stuff coming from them in the first days.

Eventually they grew to accept it, because that's who I am and what I believe, and they (as I) found that there is no reason why the two beliefs couldn't co-exist.

My grandparents (from my father side) were another whole story. They are fervent religious people, they have a gigantic cross on their backyard and have had priest do mass on their house. I was called child of the devil, witch, Satan himself and threatened by them. 

Since then I haven't talked to them, if they chose not to accept me for what I believe then it's their loss, not mine. I will always respect them and accept them for their choices, even though their attitudes really go against what the Christian religion supposedly represents.

As I know next to nothing about Wiccans Im curious what its all about. The small bit I do know is religious fanatics seem to use them as a scapegoat for just about everything. Think i read somewhere that despite the Harry Potter series apparently being dubbed as an attempt to indoctrinate children as witches, it has next to nothing to do being a Wiccan (as far as Im aware). In fact (as Im guessing your relatives are Christian), check some of their beliefs. Splitting the sea, turning water into wine and raising the dead (all part of the Bible) sounds a lot like witchcraft to me.