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Forums - Sony - a good way to play RTS games on a console..playstation Move!

Beuli2 said:
joeorc said:
Beuli2 said:

Actually, I think the Wii is capable of doing that, but it seems no one cared to try it.

no it's not to the extent that the Playstation move is the reason being there is no magnetic pointer sensor in the Wii to offset the level need to get to that precision. a great example of this is:

for one:

An internal magnetometer in the playstation move is also used for calibrating the controller’s orientation against the Earth’s magnetic field to help correct against cumulative error (drift) in the inertial sensors. The inertial sensors can be used for dead reckoning in cases which the camera tracking is insufficient, such as when the controller is obscured behind the player’s back.

here is a good example what exactly the Wii is missing:

Motus CEO talks Darwin motion-control

The success of the Wii has brought a lot of attention to motion-based game controls. Sony and Microsoft are undoubtedly working on their own motion-control systems right at this moment, but Motus, a company started by a team of MIT grads out in Cambridge, Massachusetts, has already demonstrated a...

Lot's of tal later...

 

Too much infor for my mind to process. COuld you make a casual version of this article to me understand? Please?

A pair of inertial sensors inside the controller, a three-axis linear accelerometer and a three-axis angular rate sensor, are used to track rotation as well as overall motion. An internal magnetometer is also used for calibrating the controller's orientation against the Earth's magnetic field to help correct againstcumulative error (drift) in the inertial sensors. The inertial sensors can be used for dead reckoning in cases which the camera tracking is insufficient, such as when the controller is obscured behind the player's back.

The motion controller features vibration-based haptic technology. In addition to providing a tracking reference, the controller's orb light can be used to provide visual feedback, simulating aesthetic effects such as the muzzle flash of a gun, or the paint on a brush.

All image processing for PlayStation Move is peformed in the Cell processor. According to Sony, use of the motion-tracking library entails some Synergistic Processing Unit (SPU) overhead as well an impact on memory, though the company states that the effects will be minimized. According to Move motion controller designer Anton Mikhailov, the library uses 1-2 megabytes of system memory.

while the sensor's in the Wii are IR in the strip, but the camera is in the Wii mote the reverse of the above, still get's the job done but since the Wiimote does not have a magnnetcic pointer the Wii's sensor's cannot offset the effect's of sensor drift as well as the Playstation move.

the effect's of sensor drift hassimple effect's such as an example:

"No resetting, no out-of-alignment pointing. and no annoying drift requiring game designers to build in pauses for recalibration"

the more a sensor goes out of drift the more recalibration you would have to do. but also a Magnetic sensor avoids dead areas such as behind a player's back where the playstation eye cannot see it but the magnetic sensor can still show where the playstation move controller is..that's why you do not need to have the tracking light of the bulb on the playstation move to be lit in order to control the XMB.

that's just an example.

 






I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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good stuff but honestly i'm more excited about under siege.



kitler53 said:

good stuff but honestly i'm more excited about under siege.


still an RTS..LOL

and yea me also both look to be very fun.a fantasy RTS or SCIFI is more of my fav. now do not get me wrong i like historical also, i just like fantasy and SCIFI better.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Not enough buttons to play RTS in a level competitive to the PC.



Bet with Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo that Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't sell 15 million copies up to six months after it's release, the winner will get Avatar control for a week and signature control for a month.

joeorc said:
Beuli2 said:

Actually, I think the Wii is capable of doing that, but it seems no one cared to try it.

no it's not to the extent that the Playstation move is the reason being there is no magnetic pointer sensor in the Wii to offset the level need to get to that precision. a great example of this is:

for one:

An internal magnetometer in the playstation move is also used for calibrating the controller’s orientation against the Earth’s magnetic field to help correct against cumulative error (drift) in the inertial sensors. The inertial sensors can be used for dead reckoning in cases which the camera tracking is insufficient, such as when the controller is obscured behind the player’s back.

here is a good example what exactly the Wii is missing:

Motus CEO talks Darwin motion-control

The success of the Wii has brought a lot of attention to motion-based game controls. Sony and Microsoft are undoubtedly working on their own motion-control systems right at this moment, but Motus, a company started by a team of MIT grads out in Cambridge, Massachusetts, has already demonstrated a...

The success of the Wii has brought a lot of attention to motion-based game controls. Sony and Microsoft are undoubtedly working on their own motion-control systems right at this moment, but Motus, a company started by a team of MIT grads out in Cambridge, Massachusetts, has already demonstrated a new controller that has the potential to bring motion control to any gaming platform.

The engineers at Motus were able to develop its Darwin controller relatively quickly because they spent years learning about motion-sensing technology while developing their first product, the iClub, a hardware and software package designed for golf instruction. The Darwin controller shares the familiar wandlike shape of the vanilla Wii Remote, but has more internal sensors that promise superior performance.

We had a chance to speak with Motus CEO Satayan Mahajan to find out more about the Darwin controller and the company's plans to bring it to market.

GameSpot: What exactly is the Darwin?

Satayan Mahajan: The Darwin controller is basically a motion-based controller that is competitive to the Wii, designed for the platforms other than the Wii--Xbox, PlayStation, and PC.

GS: What kind of hardware does the controller feature? Accelerometers, gyroscopes?

SM: It's both accelerometers and gyroscopes, and magnetometers. All three of those combined in very clever ways give us what we believe are better capabilities than the Wiimote.

GS: Nintendo recently announced the Wii MotionPlus accessory, which reportedly has three internal gyroscopes. Will the new add-on bring the Wii Remote closer to the Darwin?

SM: I think it should be a lot closer to the Darwin. It's still missing the magnetometers, so it's still a system that needs that IR strip to figure out where it is, whereas the Darwin is completely self-contained. If I'm not mistaken, there were a number of postings and blogs, and we've been hearing through our friends and family, so to speak, that the Wii MotionPlus was a response to the Darwin.

When a few people told us that, we thought, "How realistic is that? Here we are, this little company with 15 to 20 guys in Cambridge, Massachusetts." Oddly enough, blogs and little postings started popping up everywhere, and we thought, "Well, maybe there's some truth to it." Though it doesn't really affect us.

GS: We already know about accelerometers and gyroscopes, but what's a magnetometer?

SM: A magnetometer decides on its orientation and tells you its position relative to the Earth's magnetic field.

GS: How sensitive is it? Can it sense the movement of an inch?

SM: Sure. Yeah, it's very precise.

GS: How's the latency for the Darwin? On the Wii, there's a small but noticeable delay between moving the Wii Remote and seeing the onscreen response.

SM: Gamers that have been playing with [the Darwin] have had no visible latency. We have minimal latency because we come from a very different space where we were originally a sports product and technology company. In that space, where you're doing real-time athletic measurements, you really can't have any latency.

If you look at Motus' company, we were born out of this very high-end, scientific tool, and we brought it down the slope to gaming where the application isn't as, I don't want to say brutal, but I'm probably going to find out that it is, but just not as tough. At the high end you're taking tour athletes in golf and other sports and you really have to worry about their minute concerns, and it's a little less so in games, let's just say that.

GS: Would you say that the Darwin hardware would be less powerful or precise than your golf peripheral?

SM: No, believe it or not, it's the exact same stuff--it's very similar to what we've done in our golf technology applications. We've added buttons and created a new set of software, but it's based on similar technology.

GS: You must have a high polling rate on the controller to be able to accurately detect a golf swing.

SM: That's correct, the resolution is exceptionally high. Everything occurs in a second and a half.

GS: Could you bring that over to the consoles?

SM: It would be overkill for consoles, but, yes, you could. I don't know if people would want that granular level of data, but it's available to them if they want it.

GS: But wouldn't it be nice to play a game of, say, Top Spin tennis where the game can actually detect your grip and model your swing perfectly?

SM: I think so. One of the nice things that we like about the Wii is that it's really paved the way for us to do this. We started in this space years ago, back in 2000-2001. We thought of a game controller, of a Star Wars lightsaber, but people didn't believe in it. Wii has done a fantastic job for us. Thirty million Wiis later and they've created a market, and now you're seeing some real response to what we're doing.

GS: One of the biggest challenges for any third-party peripheral manufacturer is generating software support. How do you guys plan on getting games to support the Darwin?

SM: Believe it or not, when we came into this space, it wasn't Satayan and his group of guys saying, "Hey, guys. The Wii has done really well. Let's start making game controllers." It was actually a phone call that we got from a publisher. They needed to convert their successful Wii titles over to other platforms, and they felt that the only way to do that was through motion. Almost a year ago to the day, they came to us and asked, "Can you build this for us?" And so, we will be launching a few titles with them over the next few years.

GS: Will you be announcing this partnership soon?

SM: I hope so. Everyone's chomping at the bit, and I feel really bad when I get these phone calls where I can't say anything. Obviously, everyone asks, "Are you working with Microsoft, are you working with Sony, are you working with this company, are you working with that company?" And I'm like, guys, I can't tell you because if I was working with them I'd be under a nondisclosure agreement. You know, we're just really happy to be in this space, and we're honored that people in the gaming industry would ask us to join and create something that I think everyone is going to be happy about.

GS: Many of the people who have played with the Wii have likely noticed that the controller tracking could stand to be crisper and more accurate. The Wii Remote was a good start, but it seems as though we'll need a more powerful controller to get the motion-control games we want to play.

SM: I'm honored that you feel that way. Everyone we talk to expects us to bash the Wii, and all I can say are good things about them. I think they've done so many wonderful things on so many wonderful levels. There are kids, American kids like myself, that now have a way to not be fat anymore, and that's fantastic. It's fantastic that you can get kids off the couch and get them moving. I think they've done a wonderful job. We're just ready to take it to the next level.

GS: You're not ready to talk about software partnerships yet, but can you talk about availability and pricing?

SM: We think that the target price will be between $79 and $100, and that will range a little based on what it's bundled with, and our launch goal will be this spring--again, it's going to be partner-dependent, where they see their games coming out, that sort of thing, but that's our goal here at Motus.

GS: Thanks, Satayan!

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6234451.html

the PS3's move not only contains

accelerometers and gyroscopes, and magnetometers.

but also the Playstation Eye to boot!

So

back in 2008

Motus, a company started by a team of MIT grads out in Cambridge, Massachusetts

states

SM: It would be overkill for consoles, but, yes, you could. I don't know if people would want that granular level of data, but it's available to them if they want it.

is OVERKILL

and since the Playstation Move has one better than this the Playstation Eye on top of the

accelerometers and gyroscopes, and magnetometers.

what do you call that..I would say One kick @ss motion controller!

..lol

Would anyone care to tag this article in stumble upon so many more people could discover it?

Or some similar article highlighting the differences between playstation move and wii, that'll be the fan doing their part to support move : )



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RageBot said:

Not enough buttons to play RTS in a level competitive to the PC.

how so?

i am just wondering, because starcraft can be played with just the move controller how would that be any less in level of cempetitiveness as the PC with a mouse and KB?

There is plenty of virtual buttons that can be made within the software inside the game, as many as you may need the motion control is a pointer to use those button's. your not going to have so many physical button's on a KB  that will in all likely hood use anymore so than you would have with this control set up anyway because too many an the game really becomes unplayable.

If you need too many physical button's FOR AN RTS in my opinion it becomes convoluted and slows down the pace of the game, upto this point i have played many RTS games on the PC, but as I have seen with this demonstration's I think this can be just if not more in competitive play as any RTS  on pc which uses a KB an mouse control scheme.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

joeorc said:
RageBot said:

Not enough buttons to play RTS in a level competitive to the PC.

how so?

i am just wondering, because starcraft can be played with just the move controller how would that be any less in level of cempetitiveness as the PC with a mouse and KB?

There is plenty of virtual buttons that can be made within the software inside the game, as many as you may need the motion control is a pointer to use those button's. your not going to have so many physical button's on a KB  that will in all likely hood use anymore so than you would have with this control set up anyway because too many an the game really becomes unplayable.

If you need too many physical button's FOR AN RTS in my opinion it becomes convoluted and slows down the pace of the game, upto this point i have played many RTS games on the PC, but as I have seen with this demonstration's I think this can be just if not more in competitive play as any RTS  on pc which uses a KB an mouse control scheme.


What league/rank are you in Starcraft 2?



Bet with Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo that Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't sell 15 million copies up to six months after it's release, the winner will get Avatar control for a week and signature control for a month.

RageBot said:
joeorc said:
RageBot said:

Not enough buttons to play RTS in a level competitive to the PC.

how so?

i am just wondering, because starcraft can be played with just the move controller how would that be any less in level of cempetitiveness as the PC with a mouse and KB?

There is plenty of virtual buttons that can be made within the software inside the game, as many as you may need the motion control is a pointer to use those button's. your not going to have so many physical button's on a KB  that will in all likely hood use anymore so than you would have with this control set up anyway because too many an the game really becomes unplayable.

If you need too many physical button's FOR AN RTS in my opinion it becomes convoluted and slows down the pace of the game, upto this point i have played many RTS games on the PC, but as I have seen with this demonstration's I think this can be just if not more in competitive play as any RTS  on pc which uses a KB an mouse control scheme.


What league/rank are you in Starcraft 2?

still on dawn of war series, have not had a chance to play sc:2, but i will sometime just not yet.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

They should make a Killzone RTS game. That'd be amazing,



zaMy said:

They should make a Killzone RTS game. That'd be amazing,


yea some may not like that , but i think it would hold some great gaming on the RTS front, some games it fit's very well to make a RTS also from the game's background Killzone i think would be a prime example of a great background story to than operate a RTS type game from.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.