By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic Center

johnsobas said:

well yeah if you are talking about public land obviously it would be put up for vote, this is private land, different case.

The government can't discriminate against a certain group like gay marriage, that is why the law was struck down as unconstitutional.  You can have different laws in each state, but they have to be (or are supposed to be) under equal rights protection.  Different driving requirements is irrelevent, that is an across the board issue, they don't discriminate for no reason like they do with gays. 

Nothing is set in stone until the US Supreme Court rules on it. If Prop 8 along with Massachusetts striking down DOMA as unconstitutional reaches the US Supreme Court, then what do you think will be the constitutional question?

Do individuals regardless of sexual orientation have a US constitutional right to marry?

As far as I have read, there is nothing written in the US Constitution about a right to marry. Furthermore, considering the source of the 14th Amendment, it was a legal protection for freed slaves and the children of slaves. How this has gotten attached to so many different groups of individuals since it's passage as an amendment remains a mystery to me. Must be that "living historical document" intepretation by the US courts.

Furthermore, can you cite a source of where this land in Manhattan has been bought by the Islamic group building the Mosque? I have searched and come up dry.



Around the Network


currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

Kantor said:
Garnett said:
Kantor said:
Garnett said:

Lets reverse it and see what it looks like (Note my opinion is probably extreme and i never wish for this to happen)

Christians build a church over the holocaust site, is it wrong?

Of course its not in America, but you get my point.

Plus Terrorist didn't destroy the WTC...

(My opinion)

 

Also i heard that the mosque isn't even on ground zero, but 2 blocks away. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Strange example, since the Nazis weren't actually Christian, but sure, that works.

And of course the mosque isn't on Ground Zero. The Memorial Centre is on Ground Zero.

According to THIS, He had Christian beliefs, but who cares about Hitler.

As long as you see my example, is all that matters.

If its not on ground zero, who cares? It seems like the Media is making the Muslim population out to be the bad guy. (IMO)

It's not so much the fact that it's two blocks away from Ground Zero that irks me. They can build it right next to Ground Zero, for all I care. It's the fact that they are deliberately placing it two blocks from Ground Zero, and even worse, that Obama actually comments on this and has the audacity to approve of it.

It seems to me as though the sole purpose of this move is to annoy people and shove individual rights in everyone's face. Obama is approving of it in a feeble attempt to make the Middle East like him.

Well if its not on top of ground zero, whats the big deal? How much space is enough?

Im gonna agree with the part that they are out to annoy people, but again its not that big of an issue, its just the media saying "The bad guys who blew up the tower, are going to be celebrating over the site where thousands of people died  at".





currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

 

yes we don't have the right to marry, but you cannot discriminate against a certain groups equal rights as the other people that are getting married, in other words you can tell everyone in the state they can't marry or you can tell gays and heteros they can marry.  I don't know what is so hard to understand about that.  That is arbitrary discrimination and is wrong based on the equal rights act.  You can't make a law that says gays can't get drivers licenses because it is not a right.  You cannot do that without a compelling reason.  The church can refuse the gays all they want, but the government cannot.  They tried to come up with a compelling reason in court, but lets face it there is no compelling reason other than if you just quote the bible.

 

i dunno that's up to you to find the source, they have said a million times on the news it is private land, they've had it for a while i understand correctly.

Gay marriage being legalized in inevitable.  Just like don't ask don't tell and interracial marriages.  It is against the constitution, and it is going to happen and you know it.  Do you really think 10-20 years from now gay marriage is gonna be illegal in the US?  They will try to stall it, but it is going to happen, they don't have the legal basis to stop it.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

Around the Network
Smidlee said:
johnsobas said:

you can't put constitutional rights up for vote, same deal as gay marriage.  It doesn't matter if 100% of the people are against it. 

Actually you can with 66% of the vote. Even freedom of religion and speech can be reverse as the Constitution was design that way. The Constitution was never intended to be  like the Ten Commandment , voice of God.


you're talking about an amendment to the constitution, 2/3 vote in house and congress and 3/4 of the state legislators too.  That cannot just be applied for 1 event and they can't contradict each other, it would have to apply for every similar event afterwards.  Extremely hard to do, and extremely hard to get rid of once you do it.  It's also not a vote for the common person.  I guess you're right it's possible, but it is extremely complicated and has a lot more consequences then just trying to change 1 event.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

johnsobas said:

 

yes we don't have the right to marry, but you cannot discriminate against a certain groups equal rights as the other people that are getting married, in other words you can tell everyone in the state they can't marry or you can tell gays and heteros they can marry.  I don't know what is so hard to understand about that.  That is arbitrary discrimination and is wrong based on the equal rights act.  You can't make a law that says gays can't get drivers licenses because it is not a right.  You cannot do that without a compelling reason.  The church can refuse the gays all they want, but the government cannot.  They tried to come up with a compelling reason in court, but lets face it there is no compelling reason other than if you just quote the bible.

 

i dunno that's up to you to find the source, they have said a million times on the news it is private land, they've had it for a while i understand correctly.

Gay marriage being legalized in inevitable.  Just like don't ask don't tell and interracial marriages.  It is against the constitution, and it is going to happen and you know it.  Do you really think 10-20 years from now gay marriage is gonna be illegal in the US?  They will try to stall it, but it is going to happen, they don't have the legal basis to stop it.


The only compelling reason is the extreme religious people always trying to run things. Like there word is law are something. lol



superchunk said:

I respect him a lot for this as the entire controversy is increadibly stupid.

Anyone against this new mosque is a huge hypocrite (if american) and is severly denouncing the best ideals of our Constitution.


I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the people reading this aren't American, but just the European conquerers who decided to kick us REAL Americans in the ass and take our names. As a true American (as in my family's been here for 15000 years), I do not support this. Your people did nearly the same thing to mine, and we weren't exactly happy, and some of us still aren't over it.



SmoothCriminal said:
superchunk said:

I respect him a lot for this as the entire controversy is increadibly stupid.

Anyone against this new mosque is a huge hypocrite (if american) and is severly denouncing the best ideals of our Constitution.


I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the people reading this aren't American, but just the European conquerers who decided to kick us REAL Americans in the ass and take our names. As a true American (as in my family's been here for 15000 years), I do not support this. Your people did nearly the same thing to mine, and we weren't exactly happy, and some of us still aren't over it.

nearly the same thing?  The US Killing millions of indians (mostly from their diseases, an independent study says between 10-114 million killed from direct result of US actions), forcing them off their native land, and killing their culture is the same as 3000 killed from tiny extremist minority of a 1.5 billion strong religion?  



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

Better plan: Make it a "Multicultural Center". Then nobody can complain! It's genius!



19:44:34 Skeezer METAL GEAR ONLINE
19:44:36 Skeezer FAILURE
19:44:51 ABadClown You're right!
19:44:55 ABadClown Hur hur hur
19:45:01 Skeezer i meant
19:45:04 Skeezer YOU ARE A FAILKURE
19:45:08 Skeezer FAILURE*