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Forums - General - Portrayal of Athesits and Theists in Movies/TV?

richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device. 

Ahh yes, Star Trek.  Gene Roddenbury used the show to preach secular humanism.  His universe doesn't have chaplains on board.  They aren't religious.  The show is about how reason and science can advance all intelligent life.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about them.  It isn't an attribute that says something about someone.

Yeah, I can see why a lot of star trek fans hate DS9 because it muddys and ruins that perfect idealism... and adds in religion to boot that may or may not be real to so it's not like they're even kept with an imperfect atheist universe.  Outside of like Klingons.  Who killed their gods anyway... yet have an afterlife. 

However if you ask me, it's far superior to the other Star Treks just due to far greater character development and story depth.


Though, that's largely my point in the end.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about anybody.  At all.  That's true in our life too.  I mean, being a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Atheist whatever... it doesn't really say anything about you at all.

All the best writing, just writes everybody like people, with things like their religion and race as after thoughts... that if they do come up, are really hard to notice until they do come up.

The Star Trek universe became much darker and less focused when Gene Roddenbury died.  It lacked the preachiness that gave the original Star Trek some meaning.  Anyhow, as of now Star Trek is rebooted as an action sci-fi movie, with just fun on mind.

In the case of atheism, the answer for someone comes after they become an atheist.  What exactly do they gravitate towards to give their life an identity, and something they can connect to?  Once you get that, then you start to have a character fleshed out in a movie, or any other piece of fiction.


I'd disagree.  Deep Space Nine had a very focused view and message.  It was just a more realistic one.



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Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device. 

Ahh yes, Star Trek.  Gene Roddenbury used the show to preach secular humanism.  His universe doesn't have chaplains on board.  They aren't religious.  The show is about how reason and science can advance all intelligent life.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about them.  It isn't an attribute that says something about someone.

Yeah, I can see why a lot of star trek fans hate DS9 because it muddys and ruins that perfect idealism... and adds in religion to boot that may or may not be real to so it's not like they're even kept with an imperfect atheist universe.  Outside of like Klingons.  Who killed their gods anyway... yet have an afterlife. 

However if you ask me, it's far superior to the other Star Treks just due to far greater character development and story depth.


Though, that's largely my point in the end.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about anybody.  At all.  That's true in our life too.  I mean, being a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Atheist whatever... it doesn't really say anything about you at all.

All the best writing, just writes everybody like people, with things like their religion and race as after thoughts... that if they do come up, are really hard to notice until they do come up.

The Star Trek universe became much darker and less focused when Gene Roddenbury died.  It lacked the preachiness that gave the original Star Trek some meaning.  Anyhow, as of now Star Trek is rebooted as an action sci-fi movie, with just fun on mind.

In the case of atheism, the answer for someone comes after they become an atheist.  What exactly do they gravitate towards to give their life an identity, and something they can connect to?  Once you get that, then you start to have a character fleshed out in a movie, or any other piece of fiction.


I'd disagree.  Deep Space Nine had a very focused view and message.  It was just a more realistic one.

I was speaking about the whole Star Trek franchise.  With Roddenbury gone, it got less focused on the whole.  Look at the videogame side of things.  The Star Wars franchise adapted to videogames  better because George Lucas is still around.



richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device. 

Ahh yes, Star Trek.  Gene Roddenbury used the show to preach secular humanism.  His universe doesn't have chaplains on board.  They aren't religious.  The show is about how reason and science can advance all intelligent life.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about them.  It isn't an attribute that says something about someone.

Yeah, I can see why a lot of star trek fans hate DS9 because it muddys and ruins that perfect idealism... and adds in religion to boot that may or may not be real to so it's not like they're even kept with an imperfect atheist universe.  Outside of like Klingons.  Who killed their gods anyway... yet have an afterlife. 

However if you ask me, it's far superior to the other Star Treks just due to far greater character development and story depth.


Though, that's largely my point in the end.  Someone being an atheist doesn't say anything about anybody.  At all.  That's true in our life too.  I mean, being a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Atheist whatever... it doesn't really say anything about you at all.

All the best writing, just writes everybody like people, with things like their religion and race as after thoughts... that if they do come up, are really hard to notice until they do come up.

The Star Trek universe became much darker and less focused when Gene Roddenbury died.  It lacked the preachiness that gave the original Star Trek some meaning.  Anyhow, as of now Star Trek is rebooted as an action sci-fi movie, with just fun on mind.

In the case of atheism, the answer for someone comes after they become an atheist.  What exactly do they gravitate towards to give their life an identity, and something they can connect to?  Once you get that, then you start to have a character fleshed out in a movie, or any other piece of fiction.


I'd disagree.  Deep Space Nine had a very focused view and message.  It was just a more realistic one.

I was speaking about the whole Star Trek franchise.  With Roddenbury gone, it got less focused on the whole.  Look at the videogame side of things.  The Star Wars franchise adapted to videogames  better because George Lucas is still around.

Fair enough.   The Star Trek games do pretty much suck.

Rise of the Federation was the best i've seen battles done... though the actually strategy parts of the game were a bit unwieldy...

also the Romulans were overpowered.   Being able to stay cloaked all the time then get first strike whenever you wanted was just devestating, espiecally with the 9 ship per fleet cap.



Kasz216 said:
pearljammer said:
Kasz216 said:
pearljammer said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

 And where the hell are the Muslims on TV?

There is quite a popular show in Canada that is centred on a Muslim family - Little Mosque on the Prairie. It's pretty good, too.

I have to agree, though, atheists are grossly under-represented in television. A good writer would no doubt be able to make an interesting openly atheist character.


An interseting openly atheist character sure... but a charcter who was interesting because he was atheist?  Not  likely the case.   There just isn't anything you can do with atheism.

I disagree, a character being atheist could definitely add to a show in an interesting manner:

Take The Big Bang Theory for instance. Sheldon being an atheist would create an interesting/comical strain with his relationship with his mother or any other 'regular' people that he meets.

The same conflict could be caused by making him a converted Muslim or Jew.   Then you'd have that conflict and more related to that particular religion.

Additionally, seems a bit weird course for a TV show to take.

Haha no it couldn't.  Watch the show and you'll know exactly why that wouldn't work.  



Of course atheists can be interesting characters, ones non-belief is just one factor in a person and thus other parts must be fleshed out to make them an character effective.



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Kasz216 said:

Are atheists actually underrepresented?

I mean, how would you know?

How many shows ACTUALLY deal with religion.

To have an atheist in a show you would need.

A) A show about religion or that deals with religion a lot.

B) A show who also needs a counterpoint to that.  Aka not a show SOLEY about religion.


I think you'll generally find on the shows where they talk about religion but it isn't the main theme, there are plenty of Atheists.

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device.

I mean, if Chandler from friends was an atheist.  Or George Costanza or the fat guy from king of queens... how would you know?   And why would you care?

There is nothing you can do with an "hey i'm an atheist" angle that would work in a comedy or super drama.  Basically you'd need to have it in a dramadey... and even then it's likely to be a plot point that lasts all of 1 episode because there isn't anything you can do with it.

Unlike say, religions where you can have a crisis of faith or there are things you can go to.

The only thing atheism is really "functional" for from a writing perspective is to show a pessimism to a greater force pulling you out of trouble.  Like during  a big war.

So is the "Lord of the Rings" universe, i am still fascinated how Tolkien was able to create a Fantasy universe without Religion, Priests or Gods.



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:

Are atheists actually underrepresented?

I mean, how would you know?

How many shows ACTUALLY deal with religion.

To have an atheist in a show you would need.

A) A show about religion or that deals with religion a lot.

B) A show who also needs a counterpoint to that.  Aka not a show SOLEY about religion.


I think you'll generally find on the shows where they talk about religion but it isn't the main theme, there are plenty of Atheists.

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device.

I mean, if Chandler from friends was an atheist.  Or George Costanza or the fat guy from king of queens... how would you know?   And why would you care?

There is nothing you can do with an "hey i'm an atheist" angle that would work in a comedy or super drama.  Basically you'd need to have it in a dramadey... and even then it's likely to be a plot point that lasts all of 1 episode because there isn't anything you can do with it.

Unlike say, religions where you can have a crisis of faith or there are things you can go to.

The only thing atheism is really "functional" for from a writing perspective is to show a pessimism to a greater force pulling you out of trouble.  Like during  a big war.

So is the "Lord of the Rings" universe, i am still fascinated how Tolkien was able to create a Fantasy universe without Religion, Priests or Gods.

Huh, that's something I honestly never picked up on.  How interesting your right.  To be fair I was never the biggest LOTR guy though. 

It's particularly weird considering he was the person that convinced CS Lewis to give up Atheism and be a Christian.



There is a fine line with an overtly "atheist" character (i.e. they talk about it all the time). 

It can be done well as with the following:

 

House

Bones

Sheldon Cooper

Lisa simpson (earlier on in the show, I think she's buddhist now)

Star trek TNG Characters(minus races that have religion ie Worf)

The Doctor from Doctor Who

Stargate cast

 

 

But if the entire point of the show is having a character talk about atheism and how smart that makes them you end up with a person just as annoying as an overtly religious character.  it really isn't neccesary IMHO.  This can be seen very well in the show Family Guy, as the character of brian the dog has gone from the "staright guy" character to a bleeding heart soapbox hippie asshole who won't shut up about his own opinions.  this makes him by far the most unlikebale character I've seen on TV, and would make me punch him if he was a real person.  I'm not sure if the people who wright the show want you to like him or hate him honestly.  I would rather hang out with a racist tool like Archie Bunker than Brian Griffen, because at least Archie grew in the show as it went on. 



Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:

Are atheists actually underrepresented?

I mean, how would you know?

How many shows ACTUALLY deal with religion.

To have an atheist in a show you would need.

A) A show about religion or that deals with religion a lot.

B) A show who also needs a counterpoint to that.  Aka not a show SOLEY about religion.


I think you'll generally find on the shows where they talk about religion but it isn't the main theme, there are plenty of Atheists.

I just got done watching Babylon 5 again through netflix.  There are a number of atheists on that show.

Or heck, Look at Star Trek.  Every single person on Star Trek I think is an atheist.  Outside of Worf anyway and maybe Riker.  The thing is, nobody knows that... because atheism is kinda useless as a storytelling device.

I mean, if Chandler from friends was an atheist.  Or George Costanza or the fat guy from king of queens... how would you know?   And why would you care?

There is nothing you can do with an "hey i'm an atheist" angle that would work in a comedy or super drama.  Basically you'd need to have it in a dramadey... and even then it's likely to be a plot point that lasts all of 1 episode because there isn't anything you can do with it.

Unlike say, religions where you can have a crisis of faith or there are things you can go to.

The only thing atheism is really "functional" for from a writing perspective is to show a pessimism to a greater force pulling you out of trouble.  Like during  a big war.

So is the "Lord of the Rings" universe, i am still fascinated how Tolkien was able to create a Fantasy universe without Religion, Priests or Gods.

What?  Are you serious? LotR was based on Christianity. Gandalf was the equivalent of Jesus in that universe. There were lotsof Christian those books.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Kasz216 said:

One of the aliens has to leave their suit to save someones lives.  One guy who is a member of a race that does believe in gods though, sees nothing, because he never beleived in any of their 49 gods.

It was an interesting and fun way to show his atheism and it was interesting in how he regretted not being able to see something so wonderous like everybody else did.  I mean being able to see a giant glowing angel descend from the heavens would be quite the site to see.

Wow, glad I never watched that show. It's disgustin really, the atheist regretting not being religious.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)