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Forums - General Discussion - Arizona "your papers please" immigration law

Kasz216 said:

As for me by the way...  I'm kinda confused about this law.

I mean, if someone is caught committing a crime or are suspected of committing one aren't they required to show proof of identification anyway?

I mean, you'd want to make sure it was the right guy i'd think.  Even if it's something that's just tickatble.  I mean... you ticket someone who has no ID.  What are the chances that gets paid?


You would think so. I will search the net, I am sure i can find the exact wording of the law. But as far as I know all the law does is allow Arizona Cops to check the imigration status of anyone they have stopped for a crime.  I believe what happens now is depending on the crime they may be let go on the spot, or they go through the court system and then are released. Unless it is a felony then they may be deported. Dont qoute me on that, thats just what I think happens.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Well it is pretty long, I haven't read it all yet, but will finish it tomorrow. To long to post here, and it is in pdf format, but that is the law as it is written



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Kasz216 said:

As for me by the way...  I'm kinda confused about this law.

I mean, if someone is caught committing a crime or are suspected of committing one aren't they required to show proof of identification anyway?

I mean, you'd want to make sure it was the right guy i'd think.  Even if it's something that's just tickatble.  I mean... you ticket someone who has no ID.  What are the chances that gets paid?

Given what you said, and assuming this law is not totally useless I'd say that it means that the police can ask for your id for the "appearance" of an infraction, or for things which usually wouldn't warrant a fine. For example, a policeman sees a jaywalker and asks for his papers.



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NJ5 said:
Kasz216 said:

As for me by the way...  I'm kinda confused about this law.

I mean, if someone is caught committing a crime or are suspected of committing one aren't they required to show proof of identification anyway?

I mean, you'd want to make sure it was the right guy i'd think.  Even if it's something that's just tickatble.  I mean... you ticket someone who has no ID.  What are the chances that gets paid?

Given what you said, and assuming this law is not totally useless I'd say that it means that the police can ask for your id for the "appearance" of an infraction, or for things which usually wouldn't warrant a fine. For example, a policeman sees a jaywalker and asks for his papers.

A police officer arrests someone for littering. The minor charge is nothing but they want to nail the offender on a bigger charge through an interrogation process. Stitch them for a  drug, murder or a rape charge. Offender goes before the courts and is found guilty for a crime they did not commit and receives a long prison sentence. The police officer gets a reward or promotion.

The police are the law and some of them can get away with breaking the law.



numonex said:
NJ5 said:
Kasz216 said:

As for me by the way...  I'm kinda confused about this law.

I mean, if someone is caught committing a crime or are suspected of committing one aren't they required to show proof of identification anyway?

I mean, you'd want to make sure it was the right guy i'd think.  Even if it's something that's just tickatble.  I mean... you ticket someone who has no ID.  What are the chances that gets paid?

Given what you said, and assuming this law is not totally useless I'd say that it means that the police can ask for your id for the "appearance" of an infraction, or for things which usually wouldn't warrant a fine. For example, a policeman sees a jaywalker and asks for his papers.

A police officer arrests someone for littering. The minor charge is nothing but they want to nail the offender on a bigger charge through an interrogation process. Stitch them for a  drug, murder or a rape charge. Offender goes before the courts and is found guilty for a crime they did not commit and receives a long prison sentence. The police officer gets a reward or promotion.

The police are the law and some of them can get away with breaking the law.

Paranoid much? I mean we shouldn't not make laws because other laws would be broken by cops. What kind of attitude is that? A cop planting or falsifying information to incriminate someone is against the law. It is also irelevant to this discusssion, why bring it up?



It should be an federal law otherwise the illigal immigration just will move to an other state...

And I have to show my papers like on an weekly basis, I don't really mind this, illegals are causing problems that is simply the case and if it can helps to decrease the problems. But over here you don't get thrown out easily. In fact it helps you because they will most of the time send you to the immigration department where many get an work document..and a small chance you get thrown out of the country guess the small chance scare illegals to do this.



 

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Does this law mean that every not Native American can be suspected of being illegal European, Asian, African or Oceanian immigrant?



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Alby_da_Wolf said:

Does this law mean that every not Native American can be suspected of being illegal European, Asian, African or Oceanian immigrant?


Yes. If your white or black and stopped for a traffic violation in a car with Canadian plates, speak with a canadian/french accent, and have no proof your in the country legally, you can be investigated.

We are talking Arizona however, were there are half a million illegal mexicans, and very litte illegal Canadians, so in practice that won't happen often, but there is nothing in the law that says it shouldn't.



I find this law entertaining, because it is a toothless bill that mostly clarifies under what circumstance a police officer can check to see if someone is an illegal immigrant; and it falls inline with the kinds of treatment you see in other countries. Basically if you’re traveling in another country you’re expected to carry your passport as identification to show police if they want proof that you’re in the country legally, and if you have a work visa you’re expected to carry certain papers to demonstrate that you’re in the country legally, and if a police officer detains you you’re expected to provide these papers to them as proof that you’re in the country legally.

Only in the United States could an individual be pulled over for a traffic violation in a vehicle with mexican licence plates, unable to speak coherent English, without a drivers licence, passport or any form of identification and the police officer will be called racist if he suspects that the driver is not in the country legally.



The only good thing that I love about this law is the fact that it brings to focus in the media the immigration issue the nation is facing so congress can get their lazy butts and start working on immigration reform!



 

        

NJ5 said:
Kasz216 said:

As for me by the way...  I'm kinda confused about this law.

I mean, if someone is caught committing a crime or are suspected of committing one aren't they required to show proof of identification anyway?

I mean, you'd want to make sure it was the right guy i'd think.  Even if it's something that's just tickatble.  I mean... you ticket someone who has no ID.  What are the chances that gets paid?

Given what you said, and assuming this law is not totally useless I'd say that it means that the police can ask for your id for the "appearance" of an infraction, or for things which usually wouldn't warrant a fine. For example, a policeman sees a jaywalker and asks for his papers.

Jaywalking would warrant a fine.  I don't think we have any law infractions that don't warrant fines.

Either way, I think i'm just going to read the law... try and figure it out.

 

Edit: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Is the bill by the way.

As far as I can tell... they don't even arrest you if you can't prove status.

Basically if they arrest you, and there checks show you aren't a citizen... you're deported...

or if your background check shows your not a citizen, THEN they arrest you if they find you again.

 

The biggest worry for illegal immigrants is they're actually going to try and inforce it being illegal to hire immigrants on the street.  They can also get people who are illegal immigrants and working, but that's not likely to come up unless they commit a crime or don't pay taxes or something.