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Forums - Gaming - 3 reasons why to NOT buy a new 3DTV for gaming.

Rainbird said:
Games4Fun said:

Dont need reasons not to buy it there are plenty of those. However, they do need to find any good reason why somone would upgrade thier TV's again already. The one I have I got a year ago. The one I had before it that finally died I had for over 15years.

Because the new TVs have 3D..?

Not saying that getting a new TV right now for 3D is smart, but not everyone needs 15 years to pass between buying new TVs, especially not with all the new features we're seeing in TVs these days (3D, apps, etc.)


3D isnt enough for me to  invest in another new one for some time. the 15years was just a example. Unless you have a lot of money to puts towards one, or are big on tech stuff (or a really huge movie fan) there really is no reason to.



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Games4Fun said:
Rainbird said:
Games4Fun said:

Dont need reasons not to buy it there are plenty of those. However, they do need to find any good reason why somone would upgrade thier TV's again already. The one I have I got a year ago. The one I had before it that finally died I had for over 15years.

Because the new TVs have 3D..?

Not saying that getting a new TV right now for 3D is smart, but not everyone needs 15 years to pass between buying new TVs, especially not with all the new features we're seeing in TVs these days (3D, apps, etc.)

3D isnt enough for me to  invest in another new one for some time. the 15years was just a example. Unless you have a lot of money to puts towards one, or are big on tech stuff (or a really huge movie fan) there really is no reason to.

We agree it depends on priorities then.



Ssenkahdavic said:
 

Was not trying to put words in your mouth.  Just saying that this was not a big deal as far as CONSOLES are concerned, but it is for those of us (Diso and myself) who would use it coming from a PC. 


I've been thinking...and this 720p only for these 3D TVs may be a blessing in disguise, if you want 3D surround vision.

Once they enable PC Nvidia 3D vision support (they better!) imagine doing this with three 3D TVs -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIXT2ALlfvc

He is running GTX480 SLI (most powerful GPU which can do 3D vision) and switches to 3D at 1:30 and you can see it getting choppy while playing Crysis.

However, if you are running 3 X 720p on the new 3D TVs it shouldn't be chuggy at all...ZOMG!

But then again, still doesn't make sense as 720p 3d projectors are 700 bucks each and work amazing with 3D vision surround if you have the space on the wall for them.



I'm confused, why would they title it a "Primary Video Format timing", with "1920x1080p @ 59.94/60Hz (Top-and-Bottom)" listed, and also have "1280x720p @ 59.94/60Hz (Frame Packing, Side-by-Side(Half), Top-and-Bottom)" listed. If the 1080 is actually 720, then is the 720 top and bottom actually something else also? 

The definition of the Top and Bottom format: 

"Top-and-Bottom is one of the HDMI 3D video format structures indicated by the 3D_Structure field

and is composed of two stereoscopic pictures: Left and Right, which are subsampled to half

resolution on the vertical axis, and defined as shown in Figure 8-6."

Which to me sounds like they are half vertical rez images, 1920x 540, not 1280 x 720

 

Look at the Figure 8-6 3D structure (Top-and-Bottom)  EXPLAIN!

 

 



raygun said:

I'm confused, why would they title it a "Primary Video Format timing", with "1920x1080p @ 59.94/60Hz (Top-and-Bottom)" listed, and also have "1280x720p @ 59.94/60Hz (Frame Packing, Side-by-Side(Half), Top-and-Bottom)" listed. If the 1080 is actually 720, then is the 720 top and bottom actually something else also? 

The definition of the Top and Bottom format: 

"Top-and-Bottom is one of the HDMI 3D video format structures indicated by the 3D_Structure field

and is composed of two stereoscopic pictures: Left and Right, which are subsampled to half

resolution on the vertical axis, and defined as shown in Figure 8-6."

Which to me sounds like they are half vertical rez images, 1920x 540, not 1280 x 720

 

Look at the Figure 8-6 3D structure (Top-and-Bottom)  EXPLAIN!

 

 

 

"Which to me sounds like they are half vertical rez images, 1920x 540, not 1280 x 720"


You are essentially right.

You are getting 2 images, 1920x540 resolution each, but the TV stretches the image back to 16:9 ratio. Which is around 720p if you count the pixels you are getting.

If you have a PS3, download the Invincible tiger arcade game demo. PLay around in 3D settings and you will see what top and bottom looks like. Its exactly the same method as side to side.

Here is an image of 3D methods before "frame packing" was introduced. Checkerboard, interlaced vertically, interlaced horizontally, top and bottom and side to side.



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Why would they stretch a 1920x540 image to 1280x 720??? Wouldn't they just double the vertical to 1920 x 1080? It would be easier, and what would be the point of generating a 1920 hrz rez frame knowing it's going to be reduced to 1280? This format would never be used, there is already a 720 3d format! 

To me what they are doing is sort of interlacing, one frame holds 2 1080x540 frames, they are stretched to 1920x1080, In effect your getting 1920x1080 left and right frames updated every 1/60 sec. The frames are subsampled to 540 vertical, and then stretched to 1080, but at 60hz rate per stereo frame, it's an averaging  interlacing, or at least that's what i'd call it.



disolitude said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
 

Was not trying to put words in your mouth.  Just saying that this was not a big deal as far as CONSOLES are concerned, but it is for those of us (Diso and myself) who would use it coming from a PC. 


I've been thinking...and this 720p only for these 3D TVs may be a blessing in disguise, if you want 3D surround vision.

Once they enable PC Nvidia 3D vision support (they better!) imagine doing this with three 3D TVs -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIXT2ALlfvc

He is running GTX480 SLI (most powerful GPU which can do 3D vision) and switches to 3D at 1:30 and you can see it getting choppy while playing Crysis.

However, if you are running 3 X 720p on the new 3D TVs it shouldn't be chuggy at all...ZOMG!

But then again, still doesn't make sense as 720p 3d projectors are 700 bucks each and work amazing with 3D vision surround if you have the space on the wall for them.

Exactly what I was getting at (the bolded).

Say they did leave 1080p 3D as a usuable format.  People would always say "You should have gone higher, this isnt as good as it could be"  Sorta like some do now at lower than 1080p HD resolution (or some of those games UNDER 720p which is absolutely RIDICULOUS)  btw this is for consoles only.

This gives the devs more leeway for awesomeness (such as your example with Crysis 1080p vs 720p).  Id rather have more detail, colors and have it RUN SMOOTHER, etc at 720 in 3D than less but able to get 1080 worth of resolution (which you know some would try to push)



raygun said:

Why would they stretch a 1920x540 image to 1280x 720??? Wouldn't they just double the vertical to 1920 x 1080? It would be easier, and what would be the point of generating a 1920 hrz rez frame knowing it's going to be reduced to 1280? This format would never be used, there is already a 720 3d format! 

To me what they are doing is sort of interlacing, one frame holds 2 1080x540 frames, they are stretched to 1920x1080, In effect your getting 1920x1080 left and right frames updated every 1/60 sec. The frames are subsampled to 540 vertical, and then stretched to 1080, but at 60hz rate per stereo frame, it's an averaging  interlacing, or at least that's what i'd call it.

lol. You are much more accurate with resolution definitions than me.

I believe 1080i per eye resolution is what you have in mind and its absolutely correct.

I tend to keep it simple and deal with 480p, 720p, and 1080p when I talk. 1080i is roughly the same amount of pixels as 720p and visual quality of both to the human eye is about the same... hence I don't distinguish the two.

But you are right...1080i not 720p. My bad.



 

The human eye actually sees in a checkerboard esq, fashion.  (this is why you never take an eye test with both eyes open). 

example:

You see this total: 

1212121212

2121212121

 Now the right eye see's 2, while the left eye see's 1.  Close one of your eyes while looking at this and watch the "resolution" go down.  (this is really why checkerboard 3D works so damn well, it mimics the human eye brain)

It is like going to a 3D movie and closing one of your eyes.  Guess what you see?  The 2D version.  (will be exactly the same for both of your eyes, if they are equal or corrected to be equal)

 

If you wanna go crazy:

1920x1080i in 3D is the same exact bandwidth/bitrate as 1080p in 2D :)

 

Mind explodes

 



Ssenkahdavic said:

 

The human eye actually sees in a checkerboard esq, fashion.  (this is why you never take an eye test with both eyes open). 

example:

You see this total: 

1212121212

2121212121

 Now the right eye see's 2, while the left eye see's 1.  Close one of your eyes while looking at this and watch the "resolution" go down.  (this is really why checkerboard 3D works so damn well, it mimics the human eye brain)

It is like going to a 3D movie and closing one of your eyes.  Guess what you see?  The 2D version.  (will be exactly the same for both of your eyes, if they are equal or corrected to be equal)

 

If you wanna go crazy:

1920x1080i in 3D is the same exact bandwidth/bitrate as 1080p in 2D :)

 

Mind explodes

 

Cool fact about the checkerboard 3D pattern.

I had someone explain this to me before but I didn't clearly get it. But that was very clear... :)