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Forums - General - Social Security to be replaced with Welfare.

Soleron said:
thranx said:
Soleron said:
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Perhaps with their added funds their friends and family can give a helping hand. I am not heartless or stupind. Do you think people have no heart? If your mother/brother/sister/son is sick would you not help them? 

OK. I don't believe it will work, but I accept your viewpoint.

I personaly believe in the long run a society that values hard work wil be able to overcome more problems and advance farther than a society that rewards not working, or taking someones hard earned money. America got pretty far with out all of these prgrams, and the states that have the most of them (california) are worse offf than those with the least of them (texas)

When I lived in Texas for three years, the huge disparity between the wealthy white people who lived in the south of town and the poor black people with burnt out cars on their lawns and high crime rates in the north was worse than anything I've seen in any other US state or EU country. Texas as a whole may be prosperous but the racism and inequality are deplorable.

People have always had disabilities and grown old, they have survived this long with out all of this some how I think they will find a way.

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Edit: As someone who grew up fairly poor in the US I can tell you we all have access to eucation. I know of no one who wanted to go to school who could not. We have community colleges, trade schools, and universities. But at the same time not everyone should go to school for four years. In my profffesion it would not help me at all.

Oh, everyone gets to go to high school. I went to a US elementary school and the schoolwork was at a much lower level for the age than the UK, plus they refused to teach evolution or world history (preferring only Texan history and causing every kid in my class to never talk to me again as I didn't believe in God. I had to pull out and be homeschooled shortly after).

Sure, not every job needs university. But there are plenty of US people who are good enough to go to the very best universities and cannot afford it. That is not right. At the same time, money increases your chances of going to the top institutions.

 

How can they not afford it? Can you give me numbers? I only have the money I have gotten from working. I started my job at min wage in a resturant when I was 16 (just as my bro before me who completed four years at college) I bought my own car with said money, helped my mother pay bills with said money, and I also went to community college until it was determeined by me that I would be better off working more and saving so I could start my own business, had I decided school was best I would still be in school. I take this back to having a job, even minimun wage as being more important than some enitity paying my way for everything. It made me make choices with my money to value certain things more than others. I don't spend a fortune on clothes, junk food, alchohol, fancy cars.

Whereas I applied from an average state school to Cambridge and my fees are low, the same as any other college/uni, and ALL those who need financial help recieve it. Much better, since universal education benefits everyone.

 

Good, I agree with the same, I guess its just which services, for me it would police, fire, upto a highschool education, and national security (armed forces)








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Can only edit once? Forgot to add limited emergency medical services



oldschoolfool said:
Soleron said:
thranx said:
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I agree it would benefit me to have healthy, happy neighbors, but  i disagree on the best way to do it. I personaly believe people can take care of themselves, and letting people take care of themselves and teach their offspring how to care for themselves is better than letting the government do it. Look at how helath and education have declined as more government invovlment has come. By not forcing people to do what they have to to survive we are dragging all of america down to the lowest common denominator instead of bringing it up. Telling me and other adults we cannot take care of our selves (which is what having government parent us means) is not good. It is a bad sign that america needs change.

Yes, and that change is more government involvement. Look at Europe (I live in the UK). We have great state medical systems that achieve health for more people than you with vastly less money per person. We have good state education systems that mean anyone capable is able to do the highest qualifications they can [regardless of income, unlike the US] and our minimum high school literacy/numeracy standards are higher than your High School Certificate. With about the same cost per person.

If your arguing people cannot earn eough at the jobs out there well that is a different beast and there are different ways to tackle it.

And those who can't work? Disabled, elderly and those with astronomic medical bills even a job couldn't afford? How would your society help them?



Correct me if I'm wrong,but in the UK don't you get taxed on just about everything and I heard the cost of living is much higher. I heard about the problems on your great medical system. I agree that your education standards are much higher. I just believe more goverment is'nt the answer. I don't want to have to rely on big daddy goverment to take care of me. It's all about being responsible for yourself. I agree,that the goverment should help people that really need it,but it should be on a limited and temporary basis. lol

Don't believe those haters at all, the NHS is quite possibly the best U.K political decision of the 20th Century.

I'm sure it played a major part in the finding below:

It's worth noting that the NHS only subsidises dentist's charges in the U.K rather than covering the entire cost.

Yes, the NHS is a bit beaurocratic at times (it's the largest employer in Europe) and yes the service is below what the private sector  offers, but for one who cannot afford private medical care it is fantastic.

 

As for our taxes, as I'm in full time education I can only speak about indirect taxes and I wouldn't say they are too high at all.  TBH I don't care too much how much of my money is taken via tax as long as I don't think that it is squandered.




The government are spenders? The population isn't far behind, the problem lies in that everyone and their dog can take up huge loans that they have no way of paying back, having an entire country with people in a serious deficit is not good. Everyone has loans but in most countries there are very strict policies around them and here in Norway you can pretty much forget loaning more than three times your gross income for any purposes and you are required by law to either place a guarantee via a co-signer or through other value (car loans with full finance are often given with the house/apartment as security, given that you have made enough down payments to have actual surpluss market value versus debt) and it will now become mandatory to have a certain percentage paid off in advance before the loan is granted (i.e; you have to make a direct down payment of 8-10% of the total purchase price before the bank will let you buy a home). On top of this, the banks here are also compelled by law to set interest rate guarantees, to ensure that the interest rates don't fluctuate too much over a given perido of time and it is also perfectly normal to bind the interest rate for a decade or three-to five years on mortgages and car loans.

Yes, the government needs to stop producing incredible deficits but they also need to gain control of banking and finance operation domestically to ensure that not everyone anywhere in any situation can take out huge loans or smaller loans with fierce interest rates. Being able to drive to a gas station and take out a cash loan of up to three times the value of the car with interest rates near 100% is sheer madness however one looks at it imo. And credit cards, people seriously need to reconsider gettind and using credit cards, I know for sure that I never want to own one.



I agree we need to fix Social Security, but we are forgetting what it is (was).

The government was setting up a pension plan for the people. The tens of thousands of dollars the US government has taken from me was because they thought they would do a better job investing it for my retirement. Now they want to just steal that money and give it to those they wish to give it to.

Could you image how up in arms the feds would be if Fidelity Investments did the same thing with your 401K. Let's say instead of investing your 401K, they spent it, and then when it came time to pay, they just did't pay the rich people. The effectively stole there money.

The government would come unglued if private industry did this (as they should), and yet it's ok for them.

You want to fix Social Security? Raise the limit, or kill the program. Don't just take from a group of people because it's convenient.

Fucking crooks.



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Sounds reasonable to me, as long as they have it set up properly.