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Forums - General - Unemployment rates are severely under tracked.

numonex said:

 

It's the OVERCLASS, not the underclass that is REALLY draining our pockets, yet that slips right by typical Joe American Citizen while he is busy complaining because we have shelters to house and food stamps to feed people instead of letting them starve to death on the street like is done in the wonderful third world (India, Brazil, anyone?).

The fact is, that since 1979, the share of pre-tax income going to the TOP 1% of American households has risen by 7 percentage points to 16%. At that same time, the share of income going to the bottom 80% has fallen by 7 percentage points. This is as if every household in the bottom 80% is writing a check for $7,000 every year and sending it to the top 1%. It is what Paul Krugman calls "The New Gilded Age." The return of the Robber Barons. If you look back to that time, you will see life was pretty cruddy for the majority of Americans (aka the "non-rich" or "everyone else"). It is getting more and more like that now, isn't it? You and I who are middle class see less and less of the fruits of our labor, while upper corporate executives literally live like rock stars and royalty.

People love to complain about the chronic poor (aka the underclass) who rely on entitlements, as "dragging down the middle class." That is not so. It is actually the "overclass" that is dragging us down and accumulating more of the country's wealth than the underclass could ever hope to get their hands on. Although this may look like this is turning into a socialist or communist rant, it is not. That is not what I would consider a solution. However, something needs to be done in this country for the rest of us when the rules (corporate rights, tax status, voodoo economics, etc.) are all bent in favor of draining us financially for the benefit of the overclass.

The top 1% of the wealthy elites are LAUGHING AT YOU for being so vapid as not to notice what they are up to while you complain about the "unemployable." You have fallen right into their hands once again.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/655585-what-should-america-do-about-unemployable-3.html#ixzz0vBcZ07p2


And with the steady expansion of social programs and government spending, how do you judge the results of the government trying to correct the situation?

Here is a challenge for you. I want you to judge the outcomes after 10 years of the average individual who enters the military vs. going onto welfare. I’m willing to bet that you’d find higher employment, at higher wages, with a better education, lower crime rate and lower mortality rate for people who enter military service.



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Vertigo-X said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Tanstalas said:
SamuelRSmith said:

Not living, just vacating for the month :P I've also been to New York, probably going Vegas next year (I say probably, because my parents are wanting to go, but you have to be 21 to actually gamble, which seems to be the main attraction - - and my brothers are even younger than I (will be 17 and 14 by the time we go), so there would less for us.

Maybe I should try and convince my parents for Cali - they were interested in it a few years ago. I've always wanted to go to Hawaii, but the flight is just too much for someone like me (the 9 hours to Orlando is enough to drive me insane).

So, you're going to have to re-re-evaluate my opinion back down again.

Is your family rich and just vacations in different parts of the world?


You make it sound like we spend more time out of the country than in... that's not true, but, yeah, we do go on holiday a lot.

Rich? Maybe, but then so is anybody who has enough disposable income to fund a gaming hobby (well, that's my view anyway - and one of the reasons why I get so agg at the self-proclaimed "defenders of the poor" on this website, who seem to criticize capitalism and talk about how it exploits the poor, etc - and yet they're sitting there in an electrified, heated room, on their computer with their internet connection, clearly interested in gaming, and clearly having more than enough spare time - all benefits of the system that they hate oh-so-much, but, hey, I'm rambling)

I agree. It seems awfully hypocritical for the two in this thread to be bashing the system that has produced so much of what they love and don't even discuss how different things would be if we switched to an alternate system (socialism).

I find it ironic also that individuals who use the Internet bash government spending on anything, and resent paying taxes.  The Internet was a government project originally.  The same with GPS, and other things people use, like the highway system.



HappySqurriel said:
numonex said:

 

It's the OVERCLASS, not the underclass that is REALLY draining our pockets, yet that slips right by typical Joe American Citizen while he is busy complaining because we have shelters to house and food stamps to feed people instead of letting them starve to death on the street like is done in the wonderful third world (India, Brazil, anyone?).

The fact is, that since 1979, the share of pre-tax income going to the TOP 1% of American households has risen by 7 percentage points to 16%. At that same time, the share of income going to the bottom 80% has fallen by 7 percentage points. This is as if every household in the bottom 80% is writing a check for $7,000 every year and sending it to the top 1%. It is what Paul Krugman calls "The New Gilded Age." The return of the Robber Barons. If you look back to that time, you will see life was pretty cruddy for the majority of Americans (aka the "non-rich" or "everyone else"). It is getting more and more like that now, isn't it? You and I who are middle class see less and less of the fruits of our labor, while upper corporate executives literally live like rock stars and royalty.

People love to complain about the chronic poor (aka the underclass) who rely on entitlements, as "dragging down the middle class." That is not so. It is actually the "overclass" that is dragging us down and accumulating more of the country's wealth than the underclass could ever hope to get their hands on. Although this may look like this is turning into a socialist or communist rant, it is not. That is not what I would consider a solution. However, something needs to be done in this country for the rest of us when the rules (corporate rights, tax status, voodoo economics, etc.) are all bent in favor of draining us financially for the benefit of the overclass.

The top 1% of the wealthy elites are LAUGHING AT YOU for being so vapid as not to notice what they are up to while you complain about the "unemployable." You have fallen right into their hands once again.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/655585-what-should-america-do-about-unemployable-3.html#ixzz0vBcZ07p2


And with the steady expansion of social programs and government spending, how do you judge the results of the government trying to correct the situation?

Here is a challenge for you. I want you to judge the outcomes after 10 years of the average individual who enters the military vs. going onto welfare. I’m willing to bet that you’d find higher employment, at higher wages, with a better education, lower crime rate and lower mortality rate for people who enter military service.

The military happens to train people, work on character issues, and give individuals who enlist a reason for being.  Individuals in the welfare system are warehoused and treated as a problem, and meant to get them off the streets.  They are handled to address tax payer shame, rather than made productive.  The welfare system doesn't do anything to promote independence.



Each recession is a seismic event where the proportion of men in full-time work suddenly falls. And in each recovery it fails to return to its pre-recession level.







richardhutnik said:

The military happens to train people, work on character issues, and give individuals who enlist a reason for being.  Individuals in the welfare system are warehoused and treated as a problem, and meant to get them off the streets.  They are handled to address tax payer shame, rather than made productive.  The welfare system doesn't do anything to promote independence.


That's kind of my point ...

Social programs provided by the government to help poor people do nothing but re-enforce poverty. They attempt to solve the symptoms (low employability and low income) rather than the problems (low education, poor skills, lack of work experience, "Character" issues, substance abuse, etc.). In many cases the aid the government gives enables a person’s problems to get worse.



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HappySqurriel said:
richardhutnik said:

The military happens to train people, work on character issues, and give individuals who enlist a reason for being.  Individuals in the welfare system are warehoused and treated as a problem, and meant to get them off the streets.  They are handled to address tax payer shame, rather than made productive.  The welfare system doesn't do anything to promote independence.


That's kind of my point ...

Social programs provided by the government to help poor people do nothing but re-enforce poverty. They attempt to solve the symptoms (low employability and low income) rather than the problems (low education, poor skills, lack of work experience, "Character" issues, substance abuse, etc.). In many cases the aid the government gives enables a person’s problems to get worse.

That approach is what society develops when it doesn't freel decide to tackle these issues without government involvement.   The government will get involved and force people into a hopeless situation that would even put them at risk of losing benefits if they try to be proactive.  I have seen cases where one program capped the amount of hours people worked, because it would cost them benefits.

The system will drive people to the bottom.  In my case, when my unemployment ran out, I had the option of applying to go on welfare and lose my car (couldn't afford to keep the insurance) and phone and internet (to job hunt), or move back with family, in a verbally abusive household.  I picked the later, eventhough the verbal abuse doesn't help with depression, that I had to deal with.  Of course, my story generated flak by some, to the extent that someone posted on a blog that I should kill myself and not use his tax dollars.  This was in light of like no work being available, not even at Wendy's.   And either I list my college on my resume (a Masters) and my time at IBM, or I end up with a gap.

Corporations would likewise do similar also in regards to trying to provide solutions.  The issue is size more than anything else.



I am leaning towards the belief the American welfare system is as useless as it is, because of both the belief of Liberals that fixing external conditions results in humans acting better, and the belief of conservatives that people are inheritantly lazy, and you need to show toughness to them to motivate people to work (take away benefits and people will be forced to work).  The third path of assisting people to develop living skills, doesn't show up, so the system doesn't do this.  You have a system that warehouses people a few years, and then throws them out.



Speaking on enployment, the Miami Heat laid off their staff to sell season tickets, because they no longer have any season tickets to sell:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/07/30/1754155/with-heat-season-tickets-sold.html

Yes, a business can do that, but remind me WHY that represents good business?



richardhutnik said:

Speaking on enployment, the Miami heat laid off their staff to sell season tickets, because they no longer have any season tickets to sell:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/07/30/1754155/with-heat-season-tickets-sold.html

Yes, a business can do that, but remind me WHY that represents good business?

It makes the company richer by cutting staff and increase the company's  profit margins.  Return on share holders and dvidends, company profits are reduced by cutting labour costs. Even when a company is doing well they will cut staff to boost their profit margins. Companies want to increase their profits every year and they can do that by increasing revenue and reducing costs by cutting staff numbers.  "Efficiency" and "downsizing" is PR spin for cutting jobs.

Most companies are privately owned family businesses who hold the highest stakes in the company. The companies  will do whatever it takes to maximise their bottom line. If you do not like what companies do to workers, join a workers union and get more job security.



 

Laws need to be put in place that stop out sourcing of jobs and factories being sent overseas. Outsourcing only results in local job losses and more people on welfare in developed nations. Short term vision governments plague both sides of mainstream politics who fail to adequately address education and training programs. 

Skills shortage is used to bring in cheaper foreign workers to do jobs at the lowest cost. Local workers are not even considered because they cost the company more: economic rationalism. 

The percentage of unskilled workers in full time work is decreasing all the time. Every recession more male workers are left high and dry and out of work when they do not meet the required skill level businesses demand. Factories are dominated by unskilled and uneducated male workers. Education at all levels is dominated by females. Males are being left out in the cold.