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lestatdark said:
dtewi said:
lestatdark said:

Like I said in your wall, smaller personality traits are easily coded by DNA. That's because of DNA fingerprinting, that happens during the fusion of both haploid zygotes in the first days of fertilization. 

This DNA fingerprinting randomly methylates certain genomic areas, while keeping other areas unmethylated. When a DNA area is methylated, it cannot be coded by DNA polymerase, thus that trait never appears in protein expression, while if the area is unmethylated, it can be expressed. 

Given that also during this process of DNA fingerprinting, homologous recombination of the zygote aleli happens, there's always an extremely high probability of new traits being formed during this recombination (the recombination rate is 2^38, for non-methylated DNA).

That's why some traits of "personality" are coded by DNA, but it doesn't code for complex traits like if a person is wise or pre-disposed to idiocy. That's due to personal experience and environmental effects.


My 9th grade biology only goes so far!

Hmmm. So would a pre-disposition to say happiness or anger be able to be expressed? How simplistic are these traits?

Those are viable traits to be coded by DNA, to some extent. Some hormones like Serotonine and Dopamine have a direct correlation to the degree of "happiness" or "Sadness" that a person feels.
If both their expression are naturally high, the person would be more predisposed to be happy and to feel well in the world. In the loop-side, if both their expression is naturally low, the person has more disposition to feel depressed. 

Both the synthesis and the expression of those hormones is controlled by the major hormone-control region of the human body, the hypophysis, which is connected to the hyphotalamus as well. Both these centers work in tandem in response to metabolical rhythms and sensorial inputs from the environment. 

So while those traits can be somewhat regarded to DNA expression, the environment plays the larger role in controlling the levels of those hormones. Thus a person will be more or less "happy" in regards to their personal experience.

"somewhat" regarded? They're strongly correlated to DNA expression.

Bolded: that's heavily debated and among the expertise it nowadays clearly leans towards inheritance playing the bigger part. At least in the medical field it does. And there's recent studies that strongly support this, studies that show that human happiness doesn't correlate very well at all with your circumstances, your social position or how lucky or unlucky you are in life, but is determined largely by your natural predisposition.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/03/06/happiness-is-in-the-genes-say-scottish-scientists-86908-20341535/

EDIT: unlucky last sentence, so I added the word "largely" there for clarification.



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Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:

I never ever even implied that homophobia is only genetically determined.

It's multifactural, a combo between several genes together with environmental stimuli.

"If they gather people with every type of personality, wiped their memories clear, and told them homosexuality was normal, they would not have any homophobia."
You don't know this. But the term homohobia includes the repulsion I've been talking about (for anyone reading, homophobia is not just hate-speech and persecution). The natural aversion a typical heterosexual man (not all, but most!) feels towards the thought of licking another man's nuts. You don't take that away by erasing their memory.

Hold up. You can't equate heterosexuality with homophobia, that undermiens the meaning of the latter word. Attraction to the opposite sex is not the same thing as revulsion felt toward homosexuals.

I don't. Nowhere in that post did I refer to heterosexuality per se. Nothing about attraction whatsoever. Re-read the aversion part which is (partly) the root of homophobia.



Slimebeast said:

"somewhat" regarded? They're strongly correlated to DNA expression.

Bolded: that's heavily debated and among the expertise it nowadays clearly leans towards inheritance playing the bigger part. At least in the medical field it does. And there's recent studies that strongly support this, studies that show that human happiness doesn't correlate very well at all with your circumstances, your social position or how lucky or unlucky you are in life, but is determined by your natural predisposition.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/03/06/happiness-is-in-the-genes-say-scottish-scientists-86908-20341535/

The researchers found that those who do not excessively worry and who are sociable and conscientious tend to be happier - and that these traits are as much as 50 per cent controlled by genetics, with external factors such as relationships, health and careers contributing to differences in happiness.

Look, 50% is determined by genetics. And 50% is environment.

Where's it say genes are the larger factor as you are clearly implying?

Happiness doesn't correlate with circumstances... are you serious? If I was living in the streets, I'd be miserable. If I was in a penthouse with $500 million in the bank, I'd be pretty damn happy.

Don't twist those facts when they're not saying what you're saying at all.



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

Slimebeast said:
Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:

I never ever even implied that homophobia is only genetically determined.

It's multifactural, a combo between several genes together with environmental stimuli.

"If they gather people with every type of personality, wiped their memories clear, and told them homosexuality was normal, they would not have any homophobia."
You don't know this. But the term homohobia includes the repulsion I've been talking about (for anyone reading, homophobia is not just hate-speech and persecution). The natural aversion a typical heterosexual man (not all, but most!) feels towards the thought of licking another man's nuts. You don't take that away by erasing their memory.

Hold up. You can't equate heterosexuality with homophobia, that undermiens the meaning of the latter word. Attraction to the opposite sex is not the same thing as revulsion felt toward homosexuals.

I don't. Nowhere in that post did I refer to heterosexuality per se. Nothing about attraction whatsoever. Re-read the aversion part which is (partly) the root of homophobia.

*rereads* ...you're saying a dislike of having sex with another man.

That's heterosexuality. Homophobia is the hatred of two men or women being in love. The idea of not wanting to have sex with another man isn't homophobia. If someone does not care if two men have sex but doesn't want to have sex with a man, would you say they're homophobic?



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

Slimebeast said:
Khuutra said:

Hold up. You can't equate heterosexuality with homophobia, that undermiens the meaning of the latter word. Attraction to the opposite sex is not the same thing as revulsion felt toward homosexuals.

I don't. Nowhere in that post did I refer to heterosexuality per se. Nothing about attraction whatsoever. Re-read the aversion part which is (partly) the root of homophobia.

"Attraction to the opposite sex (at the expense of attraction to the same sex)" should be undnerstood as heterosexuality, otherwise you are bisexual. Heterosexuality is by nature an attraction to the opposite sex and not the same sex. You are not describing homophobia with that qualifier. Not wanting to hav homosexual relations does not indicate any degree of homophobia, it just indicates heterosexuality.



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A good part of what we think and feel, and the way we actually do it, comes from our genes. It may be hard to accept guys, but the truth is that stuff like intelligence, hapiness and even the kind of things and people will enjoy and like or hate are partly determined before we are even born, but that's how things are.

What we can do is prove our status as the only rational, intelligent beings in the planet by trying to overcome or ignore instincts that doesn't go according to rightly principles brought by our own best thinking, and the ones of the society we live in.

It may seem kinda off topic, but seeing the articles slimebest are posting made me remember of it. It could help the discussion, after all. 



 

 

 

 

 

dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:

"somewhat" regarded? They're strongly correlated to DNA expression.

Bolded: that's heavily debated and among the expertise it nowadays clearly leans towards inheritance playing the bigger part. At least in the medical field it does. And there's recent studies that strongly support this, studies that show that human happiness doesn't correlate very well at all with your circumstances, your social position or how lucky or unlucky you are in life, but is determined by your natural predisposition.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/03/06/happiness-is-in-the-genes-say-scottish-scientists-86908-20341535/

The researchers found that those who do not excessively worry and who are sociable and conscientious tend to be happier - and that these traits are as much as 50 per cent controlled by genetics, with external factors such as relationships, health and careers contributing to differences in happiness.

Look, 50% is determined by genetics. And 50% is environment.

Where's it say genes are the larger factor as you are clearly implying?

Happiness doesn't correlate with circumstances... are you serious? If I was living in the streets, I'd be miserable. If I was in a penthouse with $500 million in the bank, I'd be pretty damn happy.

Don't twist those facts when they're not saying what you're saying at all.

Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say it doesn't. But relatively speaking happiness doesn't correlate well with circumstances, no.

Yeah, happiness correlates (in that study) to 50% with the environment, but I never said otherwise. I implied it though, the last sentence in that post was unlycky (Ill edit it). My main point was ti point to this stude to prove that the happiness hormones that lestatdark was talking about will have an even smaller correlation to the environment since I just proved that happiness, which is determined by so much more than just serotonine and dopamine, is no more than 50% determined by the environment.



Slimebeast said:
dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:

"somewhat" regarded? They're strongly correlated to DNA expression.

Bolded: that's heavily debated and among the expertise it nowadays clearly leans towards inheritance playing the bigger part. At least in the medical field it does. And there's recent studies that strongly support this, studies that show that human happiness doesn't correlate very well at all with your circumstances, your social position or how lucky or unlucky you are in life, but is determined by your natural predisposition.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/03/06/happiness-is-in-the-genes-say-scottish-scientists-86908-20341535/

The researchers found that those who do not excessively worry and who are sociable and conscientious tend to be happier - and that these traits are as much as 50 per cent controlled by genetics, with external factors such as relationships, health and careers contributing to differences in happiness.

Look, 50% is determined by genetics. And 50% is environment.

Where's it say genes are the larger factor as you are clearly implying?

Happiness doesn't correlate with circumstances... are you serious? If I was living in the streets, I'd be miserable. If I was in a penthouse with $500 million in the bank, I'd be pretty damn happy.

Don't twist those facts when they're not saying what you're saying at all.

Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say it doesn't. But relatively speaking happiness doesn't correlate well with circumstances, no.

Yeah, happiness correlates (in that study) to 50% with the environment, but I never said otherwise. I implied it though, the last sentence in that post was unlycky (Ill edit it). My main point was ti point to this stude to prove that the happiness hormones that lestatdark was talking about will have an even smaller correlation to the environment since I just proved that happiness, which is determined by so much more than just serotonine and dopamine, is no more than 50% determined by the environment.


"that's heavily debated and among the expertise it nowadays clearly leans towards inheritance playing the bigger part. At least in the medical field it does."

Forgive me, but you sorta said that genes>environment for happiness there.




Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:
Khuutra said:

Hold up. You can't equate heterosexuality with homophobia, that undermiens the meaning of the latter word. Attraction to the opposite sex is not the same thing as revulsion felt toward homosexuals.

I don't. Nowhere in that post did I refer to heterosexuality per se. Nothing about attraction whatsoever. Re-read the aversion part which is (partly) the root of homophobia.

"Attraction to the opposite sex (at the expense of attraction to the same sex)" should be undnerstood as heterosexuality, otherwise you are bisexual. Heterosexuality is by nature an attraction to the opposite sex and not the same sex. You are not describing homophobia with that qualifier. Not wanting to hav homosexual relations does not indicate any degree of homophobia, it just indicates heterosexuality.

Well, just change the nut licking part with watching two men tongue kissing with each other or somethung.



Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:
Khuutra said:

Hold up. You can't equate heterosexuality with homophobia, that undermiens the meaning of the latter word. Attraction to the opposite sex is not the same thing as revulsion felt toward homosexuals.

I don't. Nowhere in that post did I refer to heterosexuality per se. Nothing about attraction whatsoever. Re-read the aversion part which is (partly) the root of homophobia.

"Attraction to the opposite sex (at the expense of attraction to the same sex)" should be undnerstood as heterosexuality, otherwise you are bisexual. Heterosexuality is by nature an attraction to the opposite sex and not the same sex. You are not describing homophobia with that qualifier. Not wanting to hav homosexual relations does not indicate any degree of homophobia, it just indicates heterosexuality.

The thimg about Slimebeast is that he equates "heterosxuality" with "repulsion towards homosexual acts" (for example he thinks that seeing two men kissing should automatically cause a heterosexual man to throw up).

For him the ideea of heterosexuals simply being indifferent towards homosexaul acts is inconcievable, because he equates "indifference towards homosexual acts" to "bisexuality". For him if you have to be repulsed by gays to be staright.



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