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Boutros on 19 July 2010
dtewi said:

I thought we were discussing sociological behaviors being coded into DNA, not survival mechanisms

I am not sure if DNA codes for instincts.

But DNA can't code for sociological behaviors. It's simply implausible. One's behavior in society is determined by knowledge of the society. Then their decisions are done according to what's considered normal, lawful, and an enormous amount of other factors. However, the decisions are entirely based upon their knowledge of society.

DNA does not code for knowledge, it can't teach you how society works. It can't teach you math.

That being said, homophobia is a sociological behavior, not an instinct. DNA does not code for homophobia!

Homophobia is more of a phobia, no?

But I guess it might be a sociological behavior too. Because it's true that we can easily compare homophobia with racism.



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dtewi on 19 July 2010
Boutros said:
dtewi said:

I thought we were discussing sociological behaviors being coded into DNA, not survival mechanisms

I am not sure if DNA codes for instincts.

But DNA can't code for sociological behaviors. It's simply implausible. One's behavior in society is determined by knowledge of the society. Then their decisions are done according to what's considered normal, lawful, and an enormous amount of other factors. However, the decisions are entirely based upon their knowledge of society.

DNA does not code for knowledge, it can't teach you how society works. It can't teach you math.

That being said, homophobia is a sociological behavior, not an instinct. DNA does not code for homophobia!

Homophobia is more of a phobia, no?

But I guess it might be a sociological behavior too. Because it's true that we can easily compare homophobia with racism.

Homophobia is a sociological behavior and a phobia.

I think all phobias are sociological though. Society says spiders are scary, and people are afraid of spiders. If society said puppies were scary, wouldn't we be afraid of puppies?



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

Khuutra on 19 July 2010
Slimebeast said:
Khuutra said:

I'm not getting touchy; I just need you to understand that you've done nothing to convince me that you aren't a layman when it comes to genetics.

All right, slimebeast, break it down for me. Explain to me a given instinctual mechanic that can be explained by sequences in DNA - let's take something easy, like a deer's fear of humans.

Tell me how it works. Don't avoid the big words.

I haven't? That's because you can't free yourself from prejudice. Since you think I have radical and anti-scientific opinions and beliefs you have labeled me and you underrate me. You don't have to deny it, I know it is so.

Of course "layman" needs a definition. Who is an expert and who is a layman? But my understanding of how genetics cooperate with the environment to determine behaviour is mostl likely better than anyone else in this forum. And I'm sure the proof is out there, in old posts.

As for your example with a deer's fear of humans, I don't want to reveal the answer yet, because I need to get you convinced that I understand this topic better than lestatdark. So hopefully he will reply in the thread soon.

Each argument exists in a vacuum. I don't care about how you argud in the evolution thread, or whatveer. If you recall, I only posted in there to comment about the speed of light and the age of the universe, not anything to do with genetics.

If you can't provide any proof then I'm sorry, but I'm going to remain unconvinced of pretty much anything.

Curiosity here, rather than trying to build an argument: what sort of doctor are you?



lestatdark on 19 July 2010
Slimebeast said:
lestatdark said:

Oh good lord, Slimebeast was actually trying to correlate repulsion of homosexuality as being genetically inherited?. He's the least qualified person to talk about genetics of any sort (just take a look of his arguments in the evolution thread). 

Genetic inheritance and environmental constructs are something entirely different. No kind of biological being can "inscribe" any kind of sociological behaviors into it's own DNA. DNA doesn't code behavioral proteins  

Anyway, i'm pretty mesmerized at the amount of misinformation that some people have shown in this thread. In the information society we live in today, it's a shame that cases like these still occur.

You're again showing how incompetent you are in genetics and biology.

Your arguments in the evolution thread were poor (as if evolution stops at a cell's ability of independent metabolism).

Yes, I correlated repulsion of homosexuality to genetical inheriage, what was wrong with that? I did it in a more sophisticated way than anyone else in the thread.

Bolded: that is simply wrong. I am amazed to read that. Although I don't know what you exactly mean by "environmental constructs" as it is vague, but genes and their proteins indeed determine behaviour in animals as well as in humans.


Oh Slimebeast, there you go with your attacks when your knowledge gets put out in the open

What you're saying is biologically impossible. For this conversation to go further, I would pretty much like for you to demonstrate what you know about DNA, RNA, mRNA, tRNA and how genetic information is processed, deconstructed and then put into biological shape (that is, proteins).

These are the basics of genetics, if you understand them, you'll see that there's no possible way that behaviour is determined by proteins (you're mixing hormone and signal input with behaviour).



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sapphi_snake on 19 July 2010
Boutros said:
dtewi said:

I thought we were discussing sociological behaviors being coded into DNA, not survival mechanisms

I am not sure if DNA codes for instincts.

But DNA can't code for sociological behaviors. It's simply implausible. One's behavior in society is determined by knowledge of the society. Then their decisions are done according to what's considered normal, lawful, and an enormous amount of other factors. However, the decisions are entirely based upon their knowledge of society.

DNA does not code for knowledge, it can't teach you how society works. It can't teach you math.

That being said, homophobia is a sociological behavior, not an instinct. DNA does not code for homophobia!

Homophobia is more of a phobia, no?

But I guess it might be a sociological behavior too. Because it's true that we can easily compare homophobia with racism.

The term "homophobia" is very borad. If by "homophobia" you're reffereing to the psychological condition than it can be defined as "an irrational fear of homosexuals". All phobias are irrational fears. Of course nowadays the term "homophobia" is used similar to the term "racist", describing people who do not like homosexuals.



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dtewi on 19 July 2010
lestatdark said:


Oh Slimebeast, there you go with your attacks when your knowledge gets put out in the open

What you're saying is biologically impossible. For this conversation to go further, I would pretty much like for you to demonstrate what you know about DNA, RNA, mRNA, tRNA and how genetic information is processed, deconstructed and then put into biological shape (that is, proteins).

These are the basics of genetics, if you understand them, you'll see that there's no possible way that behaviour is determined by proteins (you're mixing hormone and signal input with behaviour).


That's 9th grade Biology. Although, I can't see how something like Cysteine and Guanine would make someone hate homosexuals.

Although, I'm still perplexed as to why DNA codes for personality.



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

Slimebeast on 19 July 2010
dtewi said:

I thought we were discussing sociological behaviors being coded into DNA, not survival mechanisms They are typically connected.

I am not sure if DNA codes for instincts. Yes it does.

But DNA can't code for sociological behaviors. It's simply implausible. One's behavior in society is determined by knowledge of the society. And your genetic predisposition.

Then their decisions are done according to what's considered normal, lawful, and an enormous amount of other factors. Including instincts, hormones. 

However, the decisions are entirely based upon their knowledge of society. No.

DNA does not code for knowledge, it can't teach you how society works. It can't teach you math. But it determines your potential to understand maths.

That being said, homophobia is a sociological behavior, not an instinct. It's not just a sociological behaviour, it's also based on instincts. No behaviour is purely sociological. I already showed you the study that suggests homophobia in our modern society is inherited more than it's determined by environmental. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18347968

DNA does not code for homophobia! Yes it does, through the repulsions we talked about last night.

My reply in bold.



Khuutra on 19 July 2010
Boutros said:

Homophobia is more of a phobia, no?

But I guess it might be a sociological behavior too. Because it's true that we can easily compare homophobia with racism.

Homophobia in the sense it's being used here ("revulsion" toward homosexuals, from slimebeast's own mouth) is not an actual phobia. If it were, Slimebeast is saying we'd all be programmed to run screaming down the streets whenever there's a gay pride parade. Which, I'm sure, would only enhance the effect for every one.



Slimebeast on 19 July 2010
Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:
Khuutra said:

I'm not getting touchy; I just need you to understand that you've done nothing to convince me that you aren't a layman when it comes to genetics.

All right, slimebeast, break it down for me. Explain to me a given instinctual mechanic that can be explained by sequences in DNA - let's take something easy, like a deer's fear of humans.

Tell me how it works. Don't avoid the big words.

I haven't? That's because you can't free yourself from prejudice. Since you think I have radical and anti-scientific opinions and beliefs you have labeled me and you underrate me. You don't have to deny it, I know it is so.

Of course "layman" needs a definition. Who is an expert and who is a layman? But my understanding of how genetics cooperate with the environment to determine behaviour is mostl likely better than anyone else in this forum. And I'm sure the proof is out there, in old posts.

As for your example with a deer's fear of humans, I don't want to reveal the answer yet, because I need to get you convinced that I understand this topic better than lestatdark. So hopefully he will reply in the thread soon.

Each argument exists in a vacuum. I don't care about how you argud in the evolution thread, or whatveer. If you recall, I only posted in there to comment about the speed of light and the age of the universe, not anything to do with genetics.

If you can't provide any proof then I'm sorry, but I'm going to remain unconvinced of pretty much anything.

Curiosity here, rather than trying to build an argument: what sort of doctor are you?

I've discussed genetics here before, regarding other topics.

I'm a general practitioner.



dtewi on 19 July 2010
Slimebeast said:
dtewi said:

I thought we were discussing sociological behaviors being coded into DNA, not survival mechanisms They are typically connected.

I am not sure if DNA codes for instincts. Yes it does.

But DNA can't code for sociological behaviors. It's simply implausible. One's behavior in society is determined by knowledge of the society. And your genetic predisposition.

Then their decisions are done according to what's considered normal, lawful, and an enormous amount of other factors. Including instincts, hormones. 

However, the decisions are entirely based upon their knowledge of society. No.

DNA does not code for knowledge, it can't teach you how society works. It can't teach you math. But it determines your potential to understand maths.

That being said, homophobia is a sociological behavior, not an instinct. It's not just a sociological behaviour, it's also based on instincts. No behaviour is purely sociological. I already showed you the study that suggests homophobia in our modern society is inherited more than it's determined by environmental. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18347968

DNA does not code for homophobia! Yes it does, through the repulsions we talked about last night.

My reply in bold.


Your argument is using the idea that a predetermined personality also influences the behaviors of oneself in society. Well, duh. (I said an enormous amount of other factors, personality included) But that's just it. The homophobia is not coded into one's DNA! You also know that the environment one is in also molds their personality? Their DNA coded personality is not the only factor that would determine their behavior towards homosexuals. In fact, it's one of the least prevalent factors in determining it.

If their knowledge of society was based around the idea that homosexuality is the norm, would their personality interfere with this idea? No. Personality does determine one's behavior in society, but their knowledge of what is normal and not normal are much more enormous factors in determining their hatred. If they gather people with every type of personality, wiped their memories clear, and told them homosexuality was normal, they would not have any homophobia.



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you