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Forums - Sony - Sony to use Nvidia Tegra for PSP2; explains delay

jarrod said:
...

That's how the screen works, not the the GPU.  They render the scene twice, for each eye.

OK.

I'd also argue RE4 was pretty impressive on Gamecube, progression didn't exactly halt in 2002.

Didn't play it. From the screenshots though, you're right.





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Aren't the Tegra chipset problems also why we haven't seen an onslaught of Android based tablets yet?  



KylieDog said:
wholikeswood said:

Sounds like Sony have already fucked up with the PSP2.

 


No, if they fucked it up PSP2 would be releasing soon with a 3 year warranty on heat related failures.


Nope. If Microsoft fucked up the PSP2, they would release a 3 year warranty on heat related failures. If Sony fucked up the PSP2 they would deny the fuck up ever happened, and then redesign it, claiming the imaginary problems had been fixed.

@OP

My question is, if the PSP2 doesn't have 3D, then it's already fucked up...wait...is that a question?

Honestly, I think Sony should just not release the PSP2. I really don't. I don't think it will benefit them, and I think it will probably end up costing them money. There is definitely a risk involved, and with the 3DS/iPad/Android phones, Sony is facing some pretty stiff up front competition. The general public won't see a tech advantage no matter how good the graphics are, and in fact, they will think the 3DS has the technical advantage because of the 3D aspect. If Sony's big plan is to add a touch screen and increase the graphics, then the next console will fail compared to the PSP. There are now significant multimedia advantages on any mobile phone, the PSP2 will be seen as technically inferior by most people and even some gamers(compared to the 3DS), it will cost more, have less battery life, and have much stiffer competition from not only Nintendo as an obvious winner in the next gen of handhelds, but also apple for portable multimedia devices.

Their alternative is to create a glassesless 2 screen 3D touch screen device with better graphics than the 3DS....but comeon, lol. Could they ever live that down?



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

KylieDog said:
wholikeswood said:

Sounds like Sony have already fucked up with the PSP2.

 


No, if they fucked it up PSP2 would be releasing soon with a 3 year warranty on heat related failures.


Yeah I agree. They're best of waiting a year, releasing it at a ridicolous inital cost and coming in last place.



jarrod said:
dahuman said:
Soleron said:
jarrod said:
...

GameCube could do soft/self shadowing, normal mapping, specular highlights and subsurface scattering?  News to me. ;)

Agreed. The effects are better and the chip is easier to work with. However the number of textures/polygons look to me to be Gamecube level, in that I can imagine Mario Sunshine being at the limit of what the chip could display assuming the E3 demos show off the chip well.

The GPU core in 3DS is based on DMP's PICA chip, which dates back to 2006 as the first iteration btw.  I'm not sure why you're using ATi chips to try and give a timeline versus Tegra?

The Gamecube used an ATI chip that dates in architecture from 2001. Since I'm guessing the  Pica200's chip is about GC capability, and that Tegra is about GF6 capability, I'm measuring the differential in desktop-GPU-years.

Of course both chips were designed much later than those dates, but handheld GPU capability tends to be in step with desktop GPU capability, just X years apart from needing Y number of die shrinks to get the power envelope to ~1/30 of its previous size.

Restated: they can make a chip as capable as 10 years ago now but with 1/30 of the power use.



he was just being a smart ass, the cube can do all those and more, but you have to work on a fixed pipeline if you want a lot of other things which can be very inefficient on performance. Pica unfortunately is in that same state but with a very updated design and supports GL ES1.1(which is 1.5 really) so people can do much more since it supports the common important effects of today's games.

Wii could maybe, but it's my understanding that GameCube's nerfed memory architecture inhibited a lot of use for the TEV.  Of course, developer apathy seems to have made pushing TEV on Wii an equally futile proposition.  At least Wii managed normal mapping and rim lighting. :/

Also, the NV2A  in the Xbox was technically a fixed pipeline chip.  People tend to associate the fixed nature of Flipper as what held it back, but it was really just familiarity with the APIs.  That's something that Xbox and now 3DS don't suffer, thankfully.

actually, you have the thing in reverse, NV2A was one of the first to have programmable pipelines, but the xbox was too much like a PC and had bottlenecks when it came to memory, the Cube parts worked much better in sync than the original Xbox ever could. The problem if you ask me, was the limited storage with the mini DVD in the cube, stupid decision.



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nitekrawler1285 said:

Aren't the Tegra chipset problems also why we haven't seen an onslaught of Android based tablets yet?  


power draw is a bitch



SO another thread where a rumor of a psp2 which means it should just die or will be a failure by the usual crowd?

yep



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Just ask the Experts at Digital Foundry OK?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-nintendo-3ds?page=1

"What we do have is a massively significant increase in rendering power over the existing DS, leap-frogging the PSP and probably offering around the same horsepower as a Dreamcast, maybe in some respects giving PS2-level performance. But from everything I've seen so far there's no sign of the sort of rendering features that you see in iPad or iPhone 3GS, so no evidence of programmable pixel shaders or other state-of-the-art OpenGL ES 2.0 loveliness."

"That being the case, to compare 3DS with Wii, or even GameCube, in terms of graphical quality based on this beautiful demo probably doesn't do the home console justice. The best demos we see based on actual game assets are of Dreamcast quality."

My opinion is, PSP already lost the battle to the DS even it has much more graphical power (PS2 vs N64, which is night and day), it can still barely hold on in Japan because of Monster Hunter only, a third party game which can jump ship any minute.

The difference now between 3DS and Tegra 2 is only between shader and no shader, to be flank, I wont know the difference. The only thing Tegra 2 might offer is ease of development by utilizing Open Gl on familiar Nvidia architecture by most of developers. 

PSP2 need to have groundbreaking technologies to counter the naked eye 3D effect of 3DS, polygon numbers doesnt matter now. Dual analog for FPS and no-stylus Capacity touchscreen for adventure game is a must.



I ain't gonna buy a PSP2 if it doesn't have dual analogue sticks, affordable launch price and quality games.



dahuman said:
Soleron said:
jarrod said:
...

GameCube could do soft/self shadowing, normal mapping, specular highlights and subsurface scattering?  News to me. ;)

Agreed. The effects are better and the chip is easier to work with. However the number of textures/polygons look to me to be Gamecube level, in that I can imagine Mario Sunshine being at the limit of what the chip could display assuming the E3 demos show off the chip well.

The GPU core in 3DS is based on DMP's PICA chip, which dates back to 2006 as the first iteration btw.  I'm not sure why you're using ATi chips to try and give a timeline versus Tegra?

The Gamecube used an ATI chip that dates in architecture from 2001. Since I'm guessing the  Pica200's chip is about GC capability, and that Tegra is about GF6 capability, I'm measuring the differential in desktop-GPU-years.

Of course both chips were designed much later than those dates, but handheld GPU capability tends to be in step with desktop GPU capability, just X years apart from needing Y number of die shrinks to get the power envelope to ~1/30 of its previous size.

Restated: they can make a chip as capable as 10 years ago now but with 1/30 of the power use.



he was just being a smart ass, the cube can do all those and more, but you have to work on a fixed pipeline if you want a lot of other things which can be very inefficient on performance. Pica unfortunately is in that same state but with a very updated design and supports GL ES1.1(which is 1.5 really) so people can do much more since it supports the common important effects of today's games.


tegra and powerVR 5 are opengl 2.0, tegra problem was battery, sony makes batteries i just hope fuel and next gen battery were ready.. li-ion -polymer batteries are starting to show it age.