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Forums - General - Why I am leaving the US...

fastyxx said:

Right.  But if you look at the voting records in the Senate, especially, this never happens, especially on the Republican side, but true for both major parties.  The thought that cutting taxes for the rich will stimulate jobs and wealth trickling down to the rest of the country has utterly failed.  It only furthered the re-distribution of wealth in the upper 1/2 of 1% of the country.  And they cry about Obama or whomever "redistributing wealth" as if it's a criminal concept - - when that's what they themselves have been doing since 1980 (with the aid of Clinton, to an extent, once he had loss of the Congress midway through.)  

To be fair, there is ample proof that when Reagan slashed taxes for the rich (as well as everyone), there was a great correlation with more of the tax burden being put onto the rich. as opposed to the poor. So you are very, very wrong about the redistribution of wealth. In fact, the most egregious levels of disparity took place under Hoover and FDR's watch in the 20th century - at the time when taxes were highest.

They've squeezed out the moderates in the Republican party in a race for the money that comes from the extreme social conservatives who are trying to cling to a fundamental  Christian model for the country:  which of course is ironic in that Christians are taught to care for others and the poor and the weak and they turn around and cut every support possible and treat the poor like their own personal slave labor force.

Ah, but there is a fundemental problem with your wrong assumption:
Christians don't believe that government should redistribute wealth, help the poor, feed the hungry, ect. They think that they need to do it...Not the government.

 Their response is that the private sector and charitable organizations will pick up the slack through donations, but it's just not the case, especially in economic situations like our current one.  Charitable donations are way down except in the case of a disaster, like Katrina or Haiti.  

Don't forget that under Obama, charitable giving rules have tightened, so one could argue that the correlation between giving and the economy may not be the answer, but taxation does.

People just don't feel like they have the extra money because the short term future is so uncertain.  But the people claiming the moral purity are largely using that as a front - - they delivered very little on that front throughout the Bush years.  Their larger goals are really to protect their money and the corporate structures they all have large investment and stake in and that fund their campaigns.  (The latter is true for most of both sides.)  You only need to look at how they handle reform on Wall Street, the banking crises and the BP oil spill to see this.  





Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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Yeah... one telling piece of information is found in the research

People who reject the idea that "government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality" give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

These are percenteges of income as well.



Kasz216 said:

Yeah... one telling piece of information is found in the research

People who reject the idea that "government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality" give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

These are percenteges of income as well.


True, except when you filter out giving directly to the church, it evens out greatly.



Can't we all just get along and play our games in peace?

mrstickball said:
fastyxx said:

Right.  But if you look at the voting records in the Senate, especially, this never happens, especially on the Republican side, but true for both major parties.  The thought that cutting taxes for the rich will stimulate jobs and wealth trickling down to the rest of the country has utterly failed.  It only furthered the re-distribution of wealth in the upper 1/2 of 1% of the country.  And they cry about Obama or whomever "redistributing wealth" as if it's a criminal concept - - when that's what they themselves have been doing since 1980 (with the aid of Clinton, to an extent, once he had loss of the Congress midway through.)  

To be fair, there is ample proof that when Reagan slashed taxes for the rich (as well as everyone), there was a great correlation with more of the tax burden being put onto the rich. as opposed to the poor. So you are very, very wrong about the redistribution of wealth. In fact, the most egregious levels of disparity took place under Hoover and FDR's watch in the 20th century - at the time when taxes were highest.

They've squeezed out the moderates in the Republican party in a race for the money that comes from the extreme social conservatives who are trying to cling to a fundamental  Christian model for the country:  which of course is ironic in that Christians are taught to care for others and the poor and the weak and they turn around and cut every support possible and treat the poor like their own personal slave labor force.

Ah, but there is a fundemental problem with your wrong assumption:
Christians don't believe that government should redistribute wealth, help the poor, feed the hungry, ect. They think that they need to do it...Not the government.

 Their response is that the private sector and charitable organizations will pick up the slack through donations, but it's just not the case, especially in economic situations like our current one.  Charitable donations are way down except in the case of a disaster, like Katrina or Haiti.  

Don't forget that under Obama, charitable giving rules have tightened, so one could argue that the correlation between giving and the economy may not be the answer, but taxation does.

People just don't feel like they have the extra money because the short term future is so uncertain.  But the people claiming the moral purity are largely using that as a front - - they delivered very little on that front throughout the Bush years.  Their larger goals are really to protect their money and the corporate structures they all have large investment and stake in and that fund their campaigns.  (The latter is true for most of both sides.)  You only need to look at how they handle reform on Wall Street, the banking crises and the BP oil spill to see this.  



The percentage of wealth owned by the top 1% of the nation grew in large percentages throughout the Bush years, following policies laid in motion during Reagan and Bush Sr.  There is no debating that.  Find me a reliable source that says otherwise.  It doesn't exist.  

The middle class is rapidly shrinking, and it's not because people are moving up the ladder.  Under Bush II was the first time in U.S. history that children could expect to end up worse off than their parents.  And the economy tanked, and people want to pursue the exact same principles that exacerbated the problem in the first place.   Ludicrous.   

 



Can't we all just get along and play our games in peace?

By the way, even Greenspan has come out in favor of rescinding the Bush tax cuts.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1cd58e8c-9130-11df-b297-00144feab49a.html



Can't we all just get along and play our games in peace?

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fastyxx said:

By the way, even Greenspan has come out in favor of rescinding the Bush tax cuts.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1cd58e8c-9130-11df-b297-00144feab49a.html

On the basis that he believes it's not "politically realistic" that spending will be cut to the degree necessary to simply maintain the current deficit. That's a pretty important qualifier.



fastyxx said:
Kasz216 said:

Yeah... one telling piece of information is found in the research

People who reject the idea that "government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality" give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

These are percenteges of income as well.


True, except when you filter out giving directly to the church, it evens out greatly.

Actually it doesn't.  Even out some.  Not close to greatly though.

Those people are also far more likely to donate time... AND blood.

You can't donate blood to churches.

A good number of them aren't religious either. 

What a good number being socially liberal libretarians.

 

Having a belief in relgion also helps... but that's a totally different variable.



fastyxx said:
mrstickball said:
fastyxx said:

Right.  But if you look at the voting records in the Senate, especially, this never happens, especially on the Republican side, but true for both major parties.  The thought that cutting taxes for the rich will stimulate jobs and wealth trickling down to the rest of the country has utterly failed.  It only furthered the re-distribution of wealth in the upper 1/2 of 1% of the country.  And they cry about Obama or whomever "redistributing wealth" as if it's a criminal concept - - when that's what they themselves have been doing since 1980 (with the aid of Clinton, to an extent, once he had loss of the Congress midway through.)  

To be fair, there is ample proof that when Reagan slashed taxes for the rich (as well as everyone), there was a great correlation with more of the tax burden being put onto the rich. as opposed to the poor. So you are very, very wrong about the redistribution of wealth. In fact, the most egregious levels of disparity took place under Hoover and FDR's watch in the 20th century - at the time when taxes were highest.

They've squeezed out the moderates in the Republican party in a race for the money that comes from the extreme social conservatives who are trying to cling to a fundamental  Christian model for the country:  which of course is ironic in that Christians are taught to care for others and the poor and the weak and they turn around and cut every support possible and treat the poor like their own personal slave labor force.

Ah, but there is a fundemental problem with your wrong assumption:
Christians don't believe that government should redistribute wealth, help the poor, feed the hungry, ect. They think that they need to do it...Not the government.

 Their response is that the private sector and charitable organizations will pick up the slack through donations, but it's just not the case, especially in economic situations like our current one.  Charitable donations are way down except in the case of a disaster, like Katrina or Haiti.  

Don't forget that under Obama, charitable giving rules have tightened, so one could argue that the correlation between giving and the economy may not be the answer, but taxation does.

People just don't feel like they have the extra money because the short term future is so uncertain.  But the people claiming the moral purity are largely using that as a front - - they delivered very little on that front throughout the Bush years.  Their larger goals are really to protect their money and the corporate structures they all have large investment and stake in and that fund their campaigns.  (The latter is true for most of both sides.)  You only need to look at how they handle reform on Wall Street, the banking crises and the BP oil spill to see this.  



The percentage of wealth owned by the top 1% of the nation grew in large percentages throughout the Bush years, following policies laid in motion during Reagan and Bush Sr.  There is no debating that.  Find me a reliable source that says otherwise.  It doesn't exist.  

The middle class is rapidly shrinking, and it's not because people are moving up the ladder.  Under Bush II was the first time in U.S. history that children could expect to end up worse off than their parents.  And the economy tanked, and people want to pursue the exact same principles that exacerbated the problem in the first place.   Ludicrous.   

 

Gini Coeeficent in 2000 46.6.

Gini Coeeficent in 2009.  45.0

The way the Gini coeffcient works is... the higher the number.  The more income inequality present.

There was less of a gap between the rich and poor in 2009 then there was in 2006.

It's all really quite obvious... when we all go foward the rich people make the most money... becuase they've invested it and have drove the growth.   When we all go backwords... those with the most money lose the most... because they are the ones most directly tied into said markets.

They're the ones creating and losing wealth.



Its funny someone who is employed with a choice to relocate to a foreign country make fun of his government trying to help 10% of the unemployed population to get some kind of unemployed benefit as socialist effort. Well, people are well off can always ignore the 10% since they are down in the hell hole simply because they did not try harder and a lazy bunch, and snot at the gov that always rob the hard working community to help them.

But the truth is, the market has shrink and is not ever coming back, some people are just unlucky to be caught up in the brink of the storm and has no way to come back to the employment since no company is hiring. The lucky ones can do their best to ignore them but please do not splay salt on their wounds by saying 'oh, im going to emigrate, so long for u bunch of loser that try to steal from the rich and try to redistribute my hard-earn wealth'.



mrstickball said:
TheRealMafoo said:
nitekrawler1285 said:


Youtube now trumps all of those sources of information.  People want someone to show them the right way.  They just don't know where to look.  Maybe with your connections you can start a think tank and air it via Youtube so that the masses can see that insight.  I have long been hoping that someone with some economic and political brilliance made a "show" on the internet where they can give non B.S. answers to major issues.  Maybe you can be that guy.  If you are smart enough i'm sure you could monetize it for yourself as well.  

You don't even have to live in America to broadcast the good message. It could be the beginning of a new counter culture.  That is normally how societies tend to change attitudes right. A small but visible culture of people who believe and act in accordance with their beliefs that eventually become socially accepted.

Not to mention that most of those news outlets are in decline because consumers are indifferent to their messages that are too controlled by party lines and anyone who is smart realizes that real answers aren't going to come from one extreme or the other.

Hmm... that's not a bad idea. I could make a video podcast, or do something on justin.tv.

I will think about it. Thanks! :)

I'm actually building a studio in my office in hopes of doing that :-p

Please elaborate.  The more intelligent voices out there the more likely they are heard.  I knew that something useful might someday come from our technology to share moments with each other that isn't simply asinine humor or cutesy animals.