You do know the fact that nearly everything is unionized is why 10% unemployment is normal in europe right?  Unions are good but not for all industries and there does need to be a change in culture among unions in the US.

Socializing more leads to higher unemployment... not lower.

Additionally while 1% of the US may control 35% of all wealth... in 10 years... half of that 1% will be new and will have come from the different income brackets.

Wealth distribution is like that... but it's VERY transient.  It's not just the same rich people forever being rich.

Additionally when you compare the average salary in the US vs average salaries in places like Europe and account for purchasing parity power... The US is actually better off economically then most of Europe... outside of like... Norway I think it is. 

The average person is better off with our system.

Really the problem wasn't unions... so much as the unions not understanding what makes sense.  Or management for that matter.

I worked in a GM factory for a while... the main problem was... both the workers and the management had enough they were "getting away with" that they could trade to make the employees both happier and more productive... but they hated each other so much they outright refused.  They were like two groups who kept taking hostages but refused to trade them.  Something had to happen.

That and US unions don't realize that by protecting bad workers who actually do deserve to be fired... you are hurting good workers.  There were people there who would disapear for hours at a time operate dangerous machinary while on a cellphone etc...

Management would fire them... then they'd be back within a week.

Meanwhile due to their having seniority over a lot of good wokers, a lot of times the good workers would get stuck on shit shifts because of it.

They often run forklift drivers and have them work double shifts. (They work 10-12 hour shifts) because they don't want to hire more people.  So you've got forklift drivers working 20 hours.  It's ridiculious.

Right now... unions act kind of communist like.  No matter who they are and how much they suck at the job or don't even care we're going to make sure they keep their jobs even if they don't do anything.   All it does is frustrate the hardworking people often to the point of where they give up to.

What they should be doing is protecting the rights of those that give a damn.  Instead of trying to defend injustice, unions try and defend everybody even when they deserve to get canned.

@Kasz -

My dad drove truck during the 90's at almost every major GM plant in America (and I went with him quite a bit, too)...I totally agree with your assessment, because my dad has about a million union horror stories of atrocious workers in GM, and other union plants.

Unions can be great things...If they are run properly - most American trade unions (like carpenters) do a pretty good job. However, the industrial unions....Are horrible.

What you just said is this:

the reason why B is valid is because some people find happiness only in the despair of others.

I agree that you can be happy with little, but the same people that are happy with little will in no way be less happy with more... if anything they'd give away wealth and find happiness in that action.

However, if you speak of "relative quality" than we're not speaking of these people, we're speaking of people that are unhappy not because of what they don't have, but because of what others have and they don't... basing your happiness on whether or not you are jealous of others...I maintain my position, chosing B is retarded.

(though you are right and this is the reason why people would chose B, I wouldn't qualify it as valid)

(oh and I live in france... a country where 70% of the population delects on critisizing and looking on the other side of the fence to say it's unfaire that the others have something they don't.....)

http://www.businessinsider.com/hedgeye-the-us-is-pushing-its-debt-towards-a-57-trillion-hole-2010-6

How is China possibly going to save the US and the world from huge debt?

Yeah, I mean... the retirement packages and stuff I think totally could of been paid for fine... had the unions been run right.

Also management though... it's not just the unions.   Management was just dumb...  I mean, i'd been there for a week and even I could tell what a bad part looks like.  Anytime a worker tells a manager about a bad part though... they run them off anyway, put the dye in repairs and then ship them off to the "repairs department".

Which is one guy with a mallet... those parts NEVER see the light of day again.  Best i can tell Michigan would tell which plants were the most effective by using the most parts stamped, and not actually the most parts useable or most parts shipped.

There were plenty of other dyes and jobs we could be running rather then the broken ones... but they wanna run them just to keep their numbers up... because lower level management can and does get fired a lot.

I mean... if you got the right union heads in and the right management in... they could be doing an amazing job... but instead they didn't... and everyone got bailed out.  Not sure if it's better there or not now... I'll have to ask my Uncle next time I talk to them.

Largely I think the problem is that they don't have that much competition.  There are only so many car manufacturers... and they were on top for so long... they got complacent.

Damn shame too... instead now everybody suffers.

Hey, it is one thing Marx was right on though... as long as you could live in a nice house or a shitty house... and as long as the houses nearby you are around the same quality you'll be happy.

I mean hell... I can only imagine how many people are worse off then poor people in the US.  I've hardly got anything by US qualfications... but compaired to a lot of the world?  I'm sitting on top of it.  

Heck my car broke down today and while I was waiting for the the tow truck I met a guy today who's homeless for a few weeks because his bags got stolen on a layover and he's waiting for a bus ticekt..  Bought him some lunch while I waited.  Nice guy, but even he from what he described has it pretty good due to what the local shelters do comparied to a lot of areas in the world.

Quite honestly I'm just happy I don't live in an area where I have to make the choice between risking my life... or risking a female relative being raped just to eat or some other horrible part of the world.

yeah most of the world is probably on the 10-20 area of that scale... but "civilized" countries were at the same level just a few generations ago (most our ancestors lived in small country side villages), doesn't mean they weren't happy. (though yeah the dangers of certain countries probably have an effect on happiness...)

Italy > Both New Zealand & England in terms of beauty, the architecture there is unmatched D: there are loads of countries in europe more beautiful than New Zealand lol.

wait, he is leaving his country because people like equality? thats crazy...what kind of awful nation doesnt like having more equality?