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Forums - General - Atheists on the rise in America

pizzahut451 on 31 July 2010
lestatdark said:
pizzahut451 said:
lestatdark said:
pizzahut451 said:
lestatdark said:
pizzahut451 said:
Rath said:
pizzahut451 said:
 

So its the religion's fault that some people are filled with hatered and use religion and God as an excuse to harm other people?? What religious book is teaching that??? Almost all religious books (christain, jewish) have the same message of peace and love, its just that some people ignore that and choose to look at the fundmentalists and nut jobs that use religion as an excuse and then by some miracle think that all religious people are like that. And im sorry for all those gay people that got killed but i know for sure that God desnt hate them and that religion didnt killed them, but people.

Have you read the old testament?!?

That God is all for smiting. Stoning is generally his preferred punishment. Adultery? Stone 'em. Disobedient children? Stone 'em. Homosexuality? Stone 'em.

 

This book is what is generally used to justify discrimination against homosexuality in all of the Abrahamic religions - including Christainity and Judaism.


Old Testament was before Jesus came to earth to set things straight...i dont need to say anything else. And those people who got killed under God's command deserved their faith (Soddom and Gommorah, for example).

So, did the hundreds of thousand of people murdered in Europe during the Inquisition days, deserve that fate as well? The Malleus Maleficarum word was held as true as the bible's word in those days. 

Every religion has it's pros and cons. Unfortunately, some of the cons of certain religions are way too inhumane to just ignore.

no, they didnt. Sodom and Gommorah did. If you cant find a diffrence between gettining killed becuase you're a woman who mixes plants to cure people and getting killed for sodomy, lust and slavery than i suggest you shouldnt become a judge in the court of law :P

No religious motive should ever be used to justify the slaying of anyone, that's ridiculous and pure fanaticism. And in the inquisition it was much more than just women who mixed plants who got murdered and innocently accused. You'd do well to read up on a non-church view of the inquisition.

For a supposed religion of peace and love, there has been far to many stains in the cloth of Christianity, both in the old testament and post-Jesus. 

 

if your takling about Soddom and Gommorah, then the world slaughter was never mentioned in their story. They were cities of sin and evil and thats why they got destoyed. And like i said, it was the corrupted CATHOLIC* church and their priests  who killed all the innocent people and lied the people saying that money will earn them the salvation from hell. THEY killed people,not bible, not Jesus, not God, but them. And just becuase they call themselfes chrristians doesnt make them real christians at all.

 

*Its good to know that catholic church was the only one who performed the inquisition on people, while orthodox christisan church and protestants didnt do anything like that. Does that tells you anything?


Of course it was people who did those acts, even in the past it was the same. Why? Because people are flawed and they're going to interpret whatever they want to interpret from anything. The same goes for the bible. It was written by men, compiled by me who left out parts that didn't serve their interests and interpreted by men who use that interpretation for their own interests as well. 

That's why i'm saying, no religious motive ever justify the killing, destruction or annihilation of people, civilizations and many other things that are done in the name of religion worlwide. It's not only catholic christians that are to blame for this, but they have been one of the most destructive religions throughout their history, that's for sure.


If some cities were deostroyed by God himself, then i guees he had some very good reason to do that. Some reason that we mortals cant question or cant understand. Besides that, i pretty much agree with everything you said there.



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lestatdark on 31 July 2010
pizzahut451 said:
lestatdark said:
pizzahut451 said:
lestatdark said:
pizzahut451 said:
lestatdark said:
pizzahut451 said:
Rath said:
pizzahut451 said:
 

So its the religion's fault that some people are filled with hatered and use religion and God as an excuse to harm other people?? What religious book is teaching that??? Almost all religious books (christain, jewish) have the same message of peace and love, its just that some people ignore that and choose to look at the fundmentalists and nut jobs that use religion as an excuse and then by some miracle think that all religious people are like that. And im sorry for all those gay people that got killed but i know for sure that God desnt hate them and that religion didnt killed them, but people.

Have you read the old testament?!?

That God is all for smiting. Stoning is generally his preferred punishment. Adultery? Stone 'em. Disobedient children? Stone 'em. Homosexuality? Stone 'em.

 

This book is what is generally used to justify discrimination against homosexuality in all of the Abrahamic religions - including Christainity and Judaism.


Old Testament was before Jesus came to earth to set things straight...i dont need to say anything else. And those people who got killed under God's command deserved their faith (Soddom and Gommorah, for example).

So, did the hundreds of thousand of people murdered in Europe during the Inquisition days, deserve that fate as well? The Malleus Maleficarum word was held as true as the bible's word in those days. 

Every religion has it's pros and cons. Unfortunately, some of the cons of certain religions are way too inhumane to just ignore.

no, they didnt. Sodom and Gommorah did. If you cant find a diffrence between gettining killed becuase you're a woman who mixes plants to cure people and getting killed for sodomy, lust and slavery than i suggest you shouldnt become a judge in the court of law :P

No religious motive should ever be used to justify the slaying of anyone, that's ridiculous and pure fanaticism. And in the inquisition it was much more than just women who mixed plants who got murdered and innocently accused. You'd do well to read up on a non-church view of the inquisition.

For a supposed religion of peace and love, there has been far to many stains in the cloth of Christianity, both in the old testament and post-Jesus. 

 

if your takling about Soddom and Gommorah, then the world slaughter was never mentioned in their story. They were cities of sin and evil and thats why they got destoyed. And like i said, it was the corrupted CATHOLIC* church and their priests  who killed all the innocent people and lied the people saying that money will earn them the salvation from hell. THEY killed people,not bible, not Jesus, not God, but them. And just becuase they call themselfes chrristians doesnt make them real christians at all.

 

*Its good to know that catholic church was the only one who performed the inquisition on people, while orthodox christisan church and protestants didnt do anything like that. Does that tells you anything?


Of course it was people who did those acts, even in the past it was the same. Why? Because people are flawed and they're going to interpret whatever they want to interpret from anything. The same goes for the bible. It was written by men, compiled by me who left out parts that didn't serve their interests and interpreted by men who use that interpretation for their own interests as well. 

That's why i'm saying, no religious motive ever justify the killing, destruction or annihilation of people, civilizations and many other things that are done in the name of religion worlwide. It's not only catholic christians that are to blame for this, but they have been one of the most destructive religions throughout their history, that's for sure.


If some cities were deostroyed by God himself, then i guees he had some very good reason to do that. Some reason that we mortals cant question or cant understand. Besides that, i pretty much agree with everything you said there.

Well, if historically and archeologically both cities existed, them the most probable cause for their destruction was a natural disaster, like an earthquake or volcanic activity. It the story is just an allegory to the purge of the "sins" perpetuated in the story, then the actual church did a fine well job at emulating some of those "sins".

Because as history goes, rape, sodomy, slavery and many of those "sins" were highly prevalent during the centuries were the catholic indoctrination was pretty much the only viable and true "word" in Europe.



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NKAJ on 31 July 2010
pizzahut451 said:
NKAJ said:
pizzahut451 said:
NKAJ said:
pizzahut451 said:
alekth said:

From European Values statistics 2008: http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/eb/eb69/eb69_values_en.pdf

"It should also be noted that 27% of respondents in Cyprus, 26% in Malta and 19% in Romania mentioned religion as one of the most important values for them personally, compared with 7% on average for the European Union."

Religion simply isn't widely encouraged in Europe. As sad as it is for it to be the last one standing, as far as Christianity goes, the Roman Catholic church will probably last the longest in terms of any real influence, and they've been working hard on alienating people as of lately.

''Love'' ''Peace'' ''Freedom'' ''Justice''...  I think you'll find that religion STANDS UP for all those things

Yes I'm quite sure all the persecuted gays agree with you on that one. To be fair,most religious books are a pick and mix affair with violence and peace,hate and love and so on...


its great that you judge religion based on some fanatics and that you take the stories from bible too literally ( the ones from old testament, which is btw irrelevant to most christians), nice job


a) I wasn't judging religion on a few fanatics.I was giving an example of how not all is merry about religion.Also i do have a valid point,there are quite a few countries where it is actually illegal to be a homosexual which is quite frankly absurd.The only "evidence" to support the outlawing of homosexuality is usually some religious book.

b) Sorry when did I take the stories from the bible literally? Even when i was a catholic I never seriously took all of the tales seriously.

c) Who says i was talking exclusively about christianity?

So its the religion's fault that some people are filled with hatered and use religion and God as an excuse to harm other people?? What religious book is teaching that??? Almost all religious books (christain, jewish) have the same message of peace and love, its just that some people ignore that and choose to look at the fundmentalists and nut jobs that use religion as an excuse and then by some miracle think that all religious people are like that. And im sorry for all those gay people that got killed but i know for sure that God desnt hate them and that religion didnt killed them, but people.


No but the books often contain passages that are ambiguous enough for people to interpret the same passage very differently.Yes Religion does often promote those values,but as I said it is a pick and mix bag and you can also find areas filled with killing and such.

Just a little niggle,how do you know that God doesn't hate them?



"They will know heghan belongs to the helghast"

"England expects that everyman will do his duty"

"we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

 

sapphi_snake on 31 July 2010
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
Rath said:
pizzahut451 said:
 

So its the religion's fault that some people are filled with hatered and use religion and God as an excuse to harm other people?? What religious book is teaching that??? Almost all religious books (christain, jewish) have the same message of peace and love, its just that some people ignore that and choose to look at the fundmentalists and nut jobs that use religion as an excuse and then by some miracle think that all religious people are like that. And im sorry for all those gay people that got killed but i know for sure that God desnt hate them and that religion didnt killed them, but people.

Have you read the old testament?!?

That God is all for smiting. Stoning is generally his preferred punishment. Adultery? Stone 'em. Disobedient children? Stone 'em. Homosexuality? Stone 'em.

 

This book is what is generally used to justify discrimination against homosexuality in all of the Abrahamic religions - including Christainity and Judaism.


Old Testament was before Jesus came to earth to set things straight...i dont need to say anything else. New Testament is much more important, since why its called ''New'', because of the new moral teachings that are are still ''vaild'' today (until we get Newer Testament) That doesnt mean that Old Testament is completly irrelevant of course.

And those people who got killed under God's command deserved their faith (Soddom and Gommorah, for example).

Did they really deserve to die?

Did Onan deserve to die because he didn't like serial monogamy?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan

Serial monogamy means marrying your brother's widow. Any child you have with your brother's widow is considered a child of your deceased brother. Onan refused to have children that would not be considered his own. That was no reason to be killed.

"no, they didnt. Sodom and Gommorah did. If you cant find a diffrence between gettining killed becuase you're a woman who mixes plants to cure people and getting killed for sodomy, lust and slavery than i suggest you shouldnt become a judge in the court of law"

This reply wasn't directed at me, but I personally don't find  "sodomy" and "lust" justifiable reasons to kill anyone. Hope I never meet a judge that thinks like you.

in my opinion, Lust and Sodomy arent justifiable reasons to kill anyone, but city where  rape, slavery,selling people like they are merchandise, lust and sodomy are allowed should definitely be destoyed

So you do believe that "lust" and "sodomy" are legitimate reasons to kill anyone?

Haven't you ever lusted after anybody? Haven't you ever had anal sex? If the answer to one or both those questions is "yes", than please sir behave according to you beleifs and punish yourself appropriately.


funny how you ignore the big reasons why Soddom and Gommorah were destroyed and focus on the minor ones, lol

The fact that those "minor reasons" are reasons at all is outrageous. And even the "big reasons" aren't reason enough to massacre people. If "slavery" and "selling people like they are merchandise" are valid reasons to commin massive genocide, than God forgot to destroy post Cvil War America.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

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                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

starcraft on 31 July 2010
Onibaka said:

Atheism a religion?

IMO, Atheism should be called Science.

Most science doesn't in anyway exclude the core belief systems of the Abrehamic religions.

At least, as they are meant to be interpreted (fundamentalist nutters would disagree with me of course, as would hardcore athiests who believe that science is a means to disprove religion).



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primogen18 on 31 July 2010

I'm not even going back to the first page to see who's bright idea it was to start this discussion on the internet, lol.



pizzahut451 on 31 July 2010
NKAJ said:
pizzahut451 said:
NKAJ said:
pizzahut451 said:
NKAJ said:
pizzahut451 said:
alekth said:

From European Values statistics 2008: http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/eb/eb69/eb69_values_en.pdf

"It should also be noted that 27% of respondents in Cyprus, 26% in Malta and 19% in Romania mentioned religion as one of the most important values for them personally, compared with 7% on average for the European Union."

Religion simply isn't widely encouraged in Europe. As sad as it is for it to be the last one standing, as far as Christianity goes, the Roman Catholic church will probably last the longest in terms of any real influence, and they've been working hard on alienating people as of lately.

''Love'' ''Peace'' ''Freedom'' ''Justice''...  I think you'll find that religion STANDS UP for all those things

Yes I'm quite sure all the persecuted gays agree with you on that one. To be fair,most religious books are a pick and mix affair with violence and peace,hate and love and so on...


its great that you judge religion based on some fanatics and that you take the stories from bible too literally ( the ones from old testament, which is btw irrelevant to most christians), nice job


a) I wasn't judging religion on a few fanatics.I was giving an example of how not all is merry about religion.Also i do have a valid point,there are quite a few countries where it is actually illegal to be a homosexual which is quite frankly absurd.The only "evidence" to support the outlawing of homosexuality is usually some religious book.

b) Sorry when did I take the stories from the bible literally? Even when i was a catholic I never seriously took all of the tales seriously.

c) Who says i was talking exclusively about christianity?

So its the religion's fault that some people are filled with hatered and use religion and God as an excuse to harm other people?? What religious book is teaching that??? Almost all religious books (christain, jewish) have the same message of peace and love, its just that some people ignore that and choose to look at the fundmentalists and nut jobs that use religion as an excuse and then by some miracle think that all religious people are like that. And im sorry for all those gay people that got killed but i know for sure that God desnt hate them and that religion didnt killed them, but people.


No but the books often contain passages that are ambiguous enough for people to interpret the same passage very differently.Yes Religion does often promote those values,but as I said it is a pick and mix bag and you can also find areas filled with killing and such.

Just a little niggle,how do you know that God doesn't hate them?

because created them that way? They didnt choose to be gay, and there fro, being gay can not be sin



pizzahut451 on 31 July 2010
lestatdark said:
pizzahut451 said:
lestatdark said:
pizzahut451 said:
lestatdark said:
pizzahut451 said:
lestatdark said:
pizzahut451 said:
Rath said:
pizzahut451 said:
 

So its the religion's fault that some people are filled with hatered and use religion and God as an excuse to harm other people?? What religious book is teaching that??? Almost all religious books (christain, jewish) have the same message of peace and love, its just that some people ignore that and choose to look at the fundmentalists and nut jobs that use religion as an excuse and then by some miracle think that all religious people are like that. And im sorry for all those gay people that got killed but i know for sure that God desnt hate them and that religion didnt killed them, but people.

Have you read the old testament?!?

That God is all for smiting. Stoning is generally his preferred punishment. Adultery? Stone 'em. Disobedient children? Stone 'em. Homosexuality? Stone 'em.

 

This book is what is generally used to justify discrimination against homosexuality in all of the Abrahamic religions - including Christainity and Judaism.


Old Testament was before Jesus came to earth to set things straight...i dont need to say anything else. And those people who got killed under God's command deserved their faith (Soddom and Gommorah, for example).

So, did the hundreds of thousand of people murdered in Europe during the Inquisition days, deserve that fate as well? The Malleus Maleficarum word was held as true as the bible's word in those days. 

Every religion has it's pros and cons. Unfortunately, some of the cons of certain religions are way too inhumane to just ignore.

no, they didnt. Sodom and Gommorah did. If you cant find a diffrence between gettining killed becuase you're a woman who mixes plants to cure people and getting killed for sodomy, lust and slavery than i suggest you shouldnt become a judge in the court of law :P

No religious motive should ever be used to justify the slaying of anyone, that's ridiculous and pure fanaticism. And in the inquisition it was much more than just women who mixed plants who got murdered and innocently accused. You'd do well to read up on a non-church view of the inquisition.

For a supposed religion of peace and love, there has been far to many stains in the cloth of Christianity, both in the old testament and post-Jesus. 

 

if your takling about Soddom and Gommorah, then the world slaughter was never mentioned in their story. They were cities of sin and evil and thats why they got destoyed. And like i said, it was the corrupted CATHOLIC* church and their priests  who killed all the innocent people and lied the people saying that money will earn them the salvation from hell. THEY killed people,not bible, not Jesus, not God, but them. And just becuase they call themselfes chrristians doesnt make them real christians at all.

 

*Its good to know that catholic church was the only one who performed the inquisition on people, while orthodox christisan church and protestants didnt do anything like that. Does that tells you anything?


Of course it was people who did those acts, even in the past it was the same. Why? Because people are flawed and they're going to interpret whatever they want to interpret from anything. The same goes for the bible. It was written by men, compiled by me who left out parts that didn't serve their interests and interpreted by men who use that interpretation for their own interests as well. 

That's why i'm saying, no religious motive ever justify the killing, destruction or annihilation of people, civilizations and many other things that are done in the name of religion worlwide. It's not only catholic christians that are to blame for this, but they have been one of the most destructive religions throughout their history, that's for sure.


If some cities were deostroyed by God himself, then i guees he had some very good reason to do that. Some reason that we mortals cant question or cant understand. Besides that, i pretty much agree with everything you said there.

Well, if historically and archeologically both cities existed, them the most probable cause for their destruction was a natural disaster, like an earthquake or volcanic activity. It the story is just an allegory to the purge of the "sins" perpetuated in the story, then the actual church did a fine well job at emulating some of those "sins".

Because as history goes, rape, sodomy, slavery and many of those "sins" were highly prevalent during the centuries were the catholic indoctrination was pretty much the only viable and true "word" in Europe.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah#Historicity



pizzahut451 on 31 July 2010
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
Rath said:
pizzahut451 said:
 

So its the religion's fault that some people are filled with hatered and use religion and God as an excuse to harm other people?? What religious book is teaching that??? Almost all religious books (christain, jewish) have the same message of peace and love, its just that some people ignore that and choose to look at the fundmentalists and nut jobs that use religion as an excuse and then by some miracle think that all religious people are like that. And im sorry for all those gay people that got killed but i know for sure that God desnt hate them and that religion didnt killed them, but people.

Have you read the old testament?!?

That God is all for smiting. Stoning is generally his preferred punishment. Adultery? Stone 'em. Disobedient children? Stone 'em. Homosexuality? Stone 'em.

 

This book is what is generally used to justify discrimination against homosexuality in all of the Abrahamic religions - including Christainity and Judaism.


Old Testament was before Jesus came to earth to set things straight...i dont need to say anything else. New Testament is much more important, since why its called ''New'', because of the new moral teachings that are are still ''vaild'' today (until we get Newer Testament) That doesnt mean that Old Testament is completly irrelevant of course.

And those people who got killed under God's command deserved their faith (Soddom and Gommorah, for example).

Did they really deserve to die?

Did Onan deserve to die because he didn't like serial monogamy?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan

Serial monogamy means marrying your brother's widow. Any child you have with your brother's widow is considered a child of your deceased brother. Onan refused to have children that would not be considered his own. That was no reason to be killed.

"no, they didnt. Sodom and Gommorah did. If you cant find a diffrence between gettining killed becuase you're a woman who mixes plants to cure people and getting killed for sodomy, lust and slavery than i suggest you shouldnt become a judge in the court of law"

This reply wasn't directed at me, but I personally don't find  "sodomy" and "lust" justifiable reasons to kill anyone. Hope I never meet a judge that thinks like you.

in my opinion, Lust and Sodomy arent justifiable reasons to kill anyone, but city where  rape, slavery,selling people like they are merchandise, lust and sodomy are allowed should definitely be destoyed

So you do believe that "lust" and "sodomy" are legitimate reasons to kill anyone?

Haven't you ever lusted after anybody? Haven't you ever had anal sex? If the answer to one or both those questions is "yes", than please sir behave according to you beleifs and punish yourself appropriately.


funny how you ignore the big reasons why Soddom and Gommorah were destroyed and focus on the minor ones, lol

The fact that those "minor reasons" are reasons at all is outrageous. And even the "big reasons" aren't reason enough to massacre people. If "slavery" and "selling people like they are merchandise" are valid reasons to commin massive genocide, than God forgot to destroy post Cvil War America.

In Matthew 10:1-15, cf. Luke 10:1-12, Jesus declares certain cities more damnable than Sodom and Gomorrah, due to their response to Jesus' disciples, in the light of greater grace (RSV):

"And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomor'rah than for that town."


pacman91 on 31 July 2010

I HATE RELIGION.

 

I love my relationship with Jesus Christ