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Forums - General - Atheists on the rise in America

pizzahut451 said:


so does it piss you off when atheitst try to force their views on other people and call religion a ''big pile of shit''


I'm sure it's just as annoying as all those people who stand on corners in the city trying to preach to you about the bible. Except I have yet to see a single person do that in the name of Atheism.  Though that's probably because I live in the capital of the south.

 



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Armads said:
silicon said:

It's a shame since there are so many positive benefits of religion and being religious.


Benefits of religion:

-less likely to abuse alcohol or drugs

-charity

 

Cons of religion:

-higher homicide rate

-Higher poverty rate

-Higher infant mortality rate (who knows what's behind that one)

-Higher illiteracy rates

-higher divorce rates

-Lower levels of education

-Lower levels of gender equality

 

If you want to argue self-fulfillment then you're going to have to prove that no one can be happy while not believing in god, which isn't true. But other than what I listed can you give me some other benefits of being religious?

I hope part of the list is a joke.



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

BigBoobieHead said:

I love this! Might not be true and all, it just has a great tone

Not offending anyone, rip it apart all you want, just thought i'd show it.

Being an athiest if find that offensive. Not really.

I prefer this one though:



Atari 2600, Sega Mega Drive, Game Boy, Game Boy Advanced, N64, Playstation, Xbox, PSP Phat, PSP 3000, and PS3 60gb (upgraded to 320gb), NDS

Linux Ubuntu user

Favourite game: Killzone 3

Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Armads said:
silicon said:

It's a shame since there are so many positive benefits of religion and being religious.


Benefits of religion:

-less likely to abuse alcohol or drugs

-charity

 

Cons of religion:

-higher homicide rate

-Higher poverty rate

-Higher infant mortality rate (who knows what's behind that one)

-Higher illiteracy rates

-higher divorce rates

-Lower levels of education

-Lower levels of gender equality

 

If you want to argue self-fulfillment then you're going to have to prove that no one can be happy while not believing in god, which isn't true. But other than what I listed can you give me some other benefits of being religious?

I hope part of the list is a joke.

Me too. I wasn't talking about self-fulfillment either.



Stefan.De.Machtige said:

I hope part of the list is a joke.

George Barna, president of Barna Research group (a research group that leans in favor of christianity [their goal is to solve problems within the christian community so they have a pretty good record of being truthful when it comes to religious survey])

"While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages."

Divorce rate by religion:

Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

Many studies show that the higher one acheives academically the less likely one is to believe in god.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1101376/an_analysis_of_educational_level_and.html

 

Surveys also show that belief in god is linked to a higher likelihood to commit homicide (and a lower likelihood to commit suicide)

able 1: Homicide and Suicide Rates (Natural Logarithms) by Measures of Religiosity (World Value Survey Nations)

Items

Homicide

Suicide

God Important

0.524** 

-0.663** 

Religion Important

0.447**

-0.507**

Believe in the Devil

0.566**

-0.391**

Believe in Hell

0.510**

-0.459**

Believe in God

0.301*

-0.582**

Believe in Heaven

0.284*

-0.545**

Attend Services

0.273*

-0.449**

Belong to a Religion

0.024

-0.372**

This survey was done across 46 nations.  The study suggests that those who passionately believe in god are more likely to commit homicide because it is an act of passion which is inseperable from religious and moral teachings.  Or in other words, people who believe in god have a personality type which is also more likely to commit murder.  Those who put hold the other values in higher regard such as attending services and belonging to religion are of a much lower likelihood.

I don't think that I need to expound upon the gender inequality that religions have instilled when the Vatican has recently just declared ordaining a woman as a priest is a crime that is a crime as grave as a priest raping a little boy.

Overall per capita development tends to reduce religious belief, where as increasing poverty rates cause it to rise.

And the question was an honest one, what are the other benefits of being religious?  Becuase I don't see many



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atheism is fine, the ignorance of this thread is what is astounding.  if you believ in religion and God, you inherently can't find aethism valid.  nothing confusing about that. thus, the issue is clearly ignorance of what religion is at the heart of this thread. 

that's why aethists are so great, no matter how eloquent they can communicate, ultimately their position is based on ignorance, self righteousness and hypocrisy.



pizzahut451 said:
NKAJ said:
pizzahut451 said:
alekth said:

From European Values statistics 2008: http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/eb/eb69/eb69_values_en.pdf

"It should also be noted that 27% of respondents in Cyprus, 26% in Malta and 19% in Romania mentioned religion as one of the most important values for them personally, compared with 7% on average for the European Union."

Religion simply isn't widely encouraged in Europe. As sad as it is for it to be the last one standing, as far as Christianity goes, the Roman Catholic church will probably last the longest in terms of any real influence, and they've been working hard on alienating people as of lately.

''Love'' ''Peace'' ''Freedom'' ''Justice''...  I think you'll find that religion STANDS UP for all those things

Yes I'm quite sure all the persecuted gays agree with you on that one. To be fair,most religious books are a pick and mix affair with violence and peace,hate and love and so on...


its great that you judge religion based on some fanatics and that you take the stories from bible too literally ( the ones from old testament, which is btw irrelevant to most christians), nice job


a) I wasn't judging religion on a few fanatics.I was giving an example of how not all is merry about religion.Also i do have a valid point,there are quite a few countries where it is actually illegal to be a homosexual which is quite frankly absurd.The only "evidence" to support the outlawing of homosexuality is usually some religious book.

b) Sorry when did I take the stories from the bible literally? Even when i was a catholic I never seriously took all of the tales seriously.

c) Who says i was talking exclusively about christianity?



"They will know heghan belongs to the helghast"

"England expects that everyman will do his duty"

"we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

 

Armads said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
 

I hope part of the list is a joke.

George Barna, president of Barna Research group (a research group that leans in favor of christianity [their goal is to solve problems within the christian community so they have a pretty good record of being truthful when it comes to religious survey])

"While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages."

Divorce rate by religion:

Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

Many studies show that the higher one acheives academically the less likely one is to believe in god.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1101376/an_analysis_of_educational_level_and.html

 

Surveys also show that belief in god is linked to a higher likelihood to commit homicide (and a lower likelihood to commit suicide)

able 1: Homicide and Suicide Rates (Natural Logarithms) by Measures of Religiosity (World Value Survey Nations)

Items

Homicide

Suicide

God Important

0.524** 

-0.663** 

Religion Important

0.447**

-0.507**

Believe in the Devil

0.566**

-0.391**

Believe in Hell

0.510**

-0.459**

Believe in God

0.301*

-0.582**

Believe in Heaven

0.284*

-0.545**

Attend Services

0.273*

-0.449**

Belong to a Religion

0.024

-0.372**

This survey was done across 46 nations.  The study suggests that those who passionately believe in god are more likely to commit homicide because it is an act of passion which is inseperable from religious and moral teachings.  Or in other words, people who believe in god have a personality type which is also more likely to commit murder.  Those who put hold the other values in higher regard such as attending services and belonging to religion are of a much lower likelihood.

I don't think that I need to expound upon the gender inequality that religions have instilled when the Vatican has recently just declared ordaining a woman as a priest is a crime that is a crime as grave as a priest raping a little boy.

Overall per capita development tends to reduce religious belief, where as increasing poverty rates cause it to rise.

And the question was an honest one, what are the other benefits of being religious?  Becuase I don't see many

I think the problem with surveys is that they don't present the whole problem. I liked where you were going with your analysis of the murder rates and their relationship to personality types.

I'll begin by saying that I was raised as a Christian but have been disappointed that I have very few people who I believe personfy the Christian faith. In other words, I think people who are religious don't represent their faith.

One example I have of the benefits of religion is positive thinking. In a completely non-religious way, positive thinking can allow you to overcome obstacles. You don't need to be religious to know the value of positive thinking. In a related study, it was demonstrated that people who are good at lying to themselves are better at winning sprint races. They can tell themselves they are faster, they believe it, and perform better.

Now it's possible to convince someone of the power of positive thinking, but I don't believe it's possible to convince 5 billion people that they should all start using positive thinkig. One thing we know about human nature is the need to be able to describe our experiences through narratives. Another thing is that people have a tough time grasping the concept of probability and randomness. I'm not talking about PhDs here, I'm talking about average people. It's a lot easier to have a religion. Praying to a god to give you strength is exactly the same as telling yourself you're good at what you do.

I haven't done a lot of research on the topic though, but there was one that showed that religious people are happier. Not because of their religion but becase being religious allowed them to be part of a community. It provided many people with a basic human need that they may not otherwise have had. It doesn't mean you have to be religious but there are benefits to being religious.


I'm NOT saying anyone HAS to be religious. I may not be religious myself but I can see that there are some benefits. I don't the subject well, but this is just what I thought when I read the OP.



strunge said:

atheism is fine, the ignorance of this thread is what is astounding.  if you believ in religion and God, you inherently can't find aethism valid.  nothing confusing about that. thus, the issue is clearly ignorance of what religion is at the heart of this thread. 

that's why aethists are so great, no matter how eloquent they can communicate, ultimately their position is based on ignorance, self righteousness and hypocrisy.


Just how did you come to this conclusion? 



"They will know heghan belongs to the helghast"

"England expects that everyman will do his duty"

"we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

 

strunge said:

atheism is fine, the ignorance of this thread is what is astounding.  if you believ in religion and God, you inherently can't find aethism valid.  nothing confusing about that. thus, the issue is clearly ignorance of what religion is at the heart of this thread. 

that's why aethists are so great, no matter how eloquent they can communicate, ultimately their position is based on ignorance, self righteousness and hypocrisy.

religion is fine, the ignorance of this thread is what is astounding.  if you believe in evolution and empirical evidence for existence, you inherently can't find religion valid.  nothing confusing about that. thus, the issue is clearly ignorance of what atheism is at the heart of this thread. 

that's why religious fundamentalists are so great, no matter how dogmatically they argue, ultimately their position is based on ignorance, self righteousness and hypocrisy.

 

See what i did there?



Atari 2600, Sega Mega Drive, Game Boy, Game Boy Advanced, N64, Playstation, Xbox, PSP Phat, PSP 3000, and PS3 60gb (upgraded to 320gb), NDS

Linux Ubuntu user

Favourite game: Killzone 3