Khuutra said:
So do you see cultural subsidization as being more tolerable/justifiable than corporate subsidization? |
No; I'm giving a reason why the politicians see it that way.
Khuutra said:
So do you see cultural subsidization as being more tolerable/justifiable than corporate subsidization? |
No; I'm giving a reason why the politicians see it that way.
KylieDog said:
Without incentives for external sources to invest in the UK instead of elsewhere its just going to make things worse which obviously is not good for the UK, hence the Sony/Activision statements. |
The only incentive should be the fact that the resulting business is viable and profit-making. At least if you believe a free market produces optimal use of resources.
Classically, it isn't the function of governments to compete to offer the most tax breaks in order to get investment. Companies should choose the location because it has the lowest costs, hence reducing end prices (and in terms of goods, lowest costs mean it is optimal for the company to be sited there, hence using the Earth's resources most efficiently). Government involving themselves mean companies choose places with suboptimal cprofit potential and hence resources are used suboptimally.
Soleron said:
The only incentive should be the fact that the resulting business is viable and profit-making. At least if you believe a free market produces optimal use of resources. Classically, it isn't the function of governments to compete to offer the most tax breaks in order to get investment. Companies should choose the location because it has the lowest costs, hence reducing end prices (and in terms of goods, lowest costs mean it is optimal for the company to be sited there, hence using the Earth's resources most efficiently). Government involving themselves mean companies choose places with suboptimal cprofit potential and hence resources are used suboptimally. |
So you're saying that if companies see the UK as a suboptimal environment, then they should leave the UK as a place of business?
| kowenicki said: Cheeky bastards. Why should I as a UK taxpayer subsidise Sony? anyone? Well if Sony move all the UK based studios abroad I will start a boycott Sony thread. As we are looking at cuts and savings, then I'd rather a gaming subsidy was dropped than pretty much anything else.... as would any right thinking human being. |
Cheeky, yeah, but it's a legitimate bargaining tool on their part.
What costs the UK more money: these studios paying lower taxes, or these studios leaving and paying no taxes on top of producing no income for the UK populace?
Khuutra said:
Cheeky, yeah, but it's a legitimate bargaining tool on their part. What costs the UK more money: these studios paying lower taxes, or these studios leaving and paying no taxes on top of producing no income for the UK populace? |
Lower taxes, but boosting their government income in the long term with more UK investement
kowenicki said:
probably a close call as the parent is in japan. either way in the current climate I'd call their bluff. |
Man how is that a close call? Does Media Molecule pay its own taxes for operating in the UK? What I'm saying is that if Media Molecule up and left, it would remove part of the active work force, take away all the taxes they were paying, and remove a source of exported income for the UK(!).
Media Molecule being relocated to Vancouver would cost the UK a lot more money than MM paying lower taxes, and that's a pretty strong bargaining chip.
I don't think the government will give in either, but that doesn't mean it's not legitimate on Sony and Activision's ends.
kowenicki said:
or lower taxes allowing the parent to invest more in their emerging markets operations... there are no guarantees. |
Well Sony have shown their desire to do business in the UK, and it is not just these companies, but also the only remaining British publisher (I think) Codemasters
The real question is, why does the film industry get subsidies, but the games industry does not?
| Khuutra said: Man how is that a close call? Does Media Molecule pay its own taxes for operating in the UK? What I'm saying is that if Media Molecule up and left, it would remove part of the active work force, take away all the taxes they were paying, and remove a source of exported income for the UK(!). Media Molecule being relocated to Vancouver would cost the UK a lot more money than MM paying lower taxes, and that's a pretty strong bargaining chip. I don't think the government will give in either, but that doesn't mean it's not legitimate on Sony and Activision's ends. |
Technically a game like Little Big Planet is a Japanese export, not a U.K. export because it was produced by people employed by a Japanese company. The profits and therefore taxes in a majority sense are already Japanese, and their going overseas is only a loss in the sense of losing some moderately to high paying jobs. Its definately not the same as Rockstar for instance who AFAICR are locally owned and operated and therefore pay taxes on the entirety of their taxable profits.
Tease.
Khuutra said:
So you're saying that if companies see the UK as a suboptimal environment, then they should leave the UK as a place of business? |
Oh, yes. That's why I hate the way news items of 'X company is moving manufacturing to Poland' are presented as if that was a terrible thing; a slight to British people; and something the government should interfere in to stop.
The real issue is that 1hr of unskilled labour costs tens of times more in the UK than abroad. Due to historical reasons, better workers' rights/protections here, and the high cost of goods. I'd like to see that equalise as the rest of the world adopts (roughly) our laws and rights.
kowenicki said:
Correct. Media Molecule export nothing. |
Income tax, we do want people employed dont we