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sad.man.loves.vgc on 12 June 2010
LordTheNightKnight said:
Squilliam said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Dgc1808 said:


To be fair, the earliest iPhone has nearly twice the total ram of the Wii and half the video ram of the PS3. Then you consider that the PS3/360 version of the game was 720p while iPhone resolution isn't even 480p [720x480] but actually 320x480.

That isn't fair, since that's still a hell of a lot less powerful, and not all the RAM is for gaming.


It is fair actually. The iPhone is to Wii development in terms of risk for a large publisher what Wii shovelware is to a 'AAA' title. It costs absolutely nothing to distribute games and they have an inbuilt word of mouth mechanism (its a phone). The only cost is really just the sunk costs involved in making and certifying the titles in question. There are precisely zero logistical and publishing costs to consider and the margin on every title is a flat 70%.

 


That isn't fair either, since you're responding with a different argument. And the Wii is not a risk. Developers just pretend it is an excuse.


Excuse for what exactly? it's their money, their company , they decide what they want. They could say anything other than "it's a risk" and people would still be mad.



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c0rd on 12 June 2010
LordTheNightKnight said:
c0rd said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
c0rd said:

I suppose...

If I were to put money on it, though, I'd bet on the HD consoles, by a sizable margin. Really, they make up the majority of the potential audience for this game - males gamers, online focus, last gen (PS2-era) values and controls. Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find another Wii exclusive that's a more perfect fit for HD consoles...

I'm not saying it would have been a better business decision, of course. I'm also only talking about its sales in the west.

That still assumes those are guaranteed to sell a game, when the HD sales show those are not enough.

Not sure what you mean, can you clarify?

@killeryoshis: I agree, that's why I brought the game up. It was to illustrate why some third party games don't exactly light up the sales charts, when there would at least be a chance if they built actual Wii games, rather than PS2 games with tacked on motion (or even no motion) controls.

Instead of compromising by changing the games to suit the Wii, third parties insult the console and its users, and retreat to HD consoles where they're more at home.


You listed things assuming those were proof the game would sell better. That only works if most of the games that met those were hits on the HD systems, and there are plenty of flops and poor sellers that show otherwise. Take Capcom's own Lost Planet 2, which not only met that list, but was more of a western appealing game.

Oh, I get it.

I think MH3 (HD) would have easily outdone Lost Planet 2, though. LP2 had much more going against it - being a sequel, another shooter (not much of an identity), less advertisement (the MH3 push was huge), and was received poorly (68-69 meta vs MH3's 85).

On the other hand, MH3 offers an experience HD games don't really offer - developing medieval a character (swords / axes / maces / etc), the environments, slaying dragons with friends online, and so on. Almost like WoW-lite, or something.

And even with all this, LP2 (PS360 combined) is tracking ahead of the Wii's MH3 (again, in the west).



LordTheNightKnight on 12 June 2010
sad.man.loves.vgc said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Squilliam said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Dgc1808 said:


To be fair, the earliest iPhone has nearly twice the total ram of the Wii and half the video ram of the PS3. Then you consider that the PS3/360 version of the game was 720p while iPhone resolution isn't even 480p [720x480] but actually 320x480.

That isn't fair, since that's still a hell of a lot less powerful, and not all the RAM is for gaming.


It is fair actually. The iPhone is to Wii development in terms of risk for a large publisher what Wii shovelware is to a 'AAA' title. It costs absolutely nothing to distribute games and they have an inbuilt word of mouth mechanism (its a phone). The only cost is really just the sunk costs involved in making and certifying the titles in question. There are precisely zero logistical and publishing costs to consider and the margin on every title is a flat 70%.

 


That isn't fair either, since you're responding with a different argument. And the Wii is not a risk. Developers just pretend it is an excuse.


Excuse for what exactly? it's their money, their company , they decide what they want. They could say anything other than "it's a risk" and people would still be mad.


Then they are dumb, since the cutsomers make the actual decisions, and going for the iPhone based on just not liking the Wii is a stupid use of their money, which they get from customers.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Squilliam on 12 June 2010
LordTheNightKnight said:
Squilliam said:

Developers have a very good excuse, they can self publish on the iPhone. Anyway I think you're talking about publishers when you say developers so I will treat it as such.

In any case to respond to the original point, if RAM is a deciding factor then the iPhone has two very significant advantages. Not only does it have more available for the game to use, it also has extremely low latency flash -> ram transfer which is over 1000* better than the optical drive on the Wii and it's latency, not absolute transfer rates which kill performance on optical drive based titles.

In any case to support my previous point further the comparison between iPhone distribution and Wii is about comparable to optical disc vs flash in terms logistical efficiencies. With digital distribution theres no upfront cost to create and ship goods, theres no under/over shipping of goods, there are no returns to deal with or faulty product, theres comparatively unlimited shelf space in terms of keeping games on the shelves even when they aren't selling and finally they attain a higher margin on their goods and can price them lower.


The problem is that means that HD systems not only have most of those problems with games on disc, but also the iPhone being BS still stands.

Plus the iPhone was flocked to for the belief that was where the next big thing was, not because of distribution costs.

The HD consoles have 5.81* the memory of the Wii. They make up for the speed of the drives with a larger quantity of RAM and faster drives or HDD caching. In any case beyond the fact that the iPhone has a superior distribution platform theres also the additional bonus that it has programmable shaders.

BTW the iPhone is the next big thing. It took 20% by absolute sales of the portable gaming market and likely 30% by publisher revenue given the better distribution platform. Thats pretty damn impressive.



Tease.

sad.man.loves.vgc on 12 June 2010

Ninty fans are always happy with ninty's line up and whenever a thread like this is posted they say they are satisfied and got enough games.

2 days later I read a thread full of capcom -one of my favourite companies- hate and endless whinning and bitching why they won't bring their games to the wii, if they wanna be stupid let them be stupid.



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LordTheNightKnight on 12 June 2010
Squilliam said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Squilliam said:

Developers have a very good excuse, they can self publish on the iPhone. Anyway I think you're talking about publishers when you say developers so I will treat it as such.

In any case to respond to the original point, if RAM is a deciding factor then the iPhone has two very significant advantages. Not only does it have more available for the game to use, it also has extremely low latency flash -> ram transfer which is over 1000* better than the optical drive on the Wii and it's latency, not absolute transfer rates which kill performance on optical drive based titles.

In any case to support my previous point further the comparison between iPhone distribution and Wii is about comparable to optical disc vs flash in terms logistical efficiencies. With digital distribution theres no upfront cost to create and ship goods, theres no under/over shipping of goods, there are no returns to deal with or faulty product, theres comparatively unlimited shelf space in terms of keeping games on the shelves even when they aren't selling and finally they attain a higher margin on their goods and can price them lower.


The problem is that means that HD systems not only have most of those problems with games on disc, but also the iPhone being BS still stands.

Plus the iPhone was flocked to for the belief that was where the next big thing was, not because of distribution costs.

The HD consoles have 5.81* the memory of the Wii. They make up for the speed of the drives with a larger quantity of RAM and faster drives or HDD caching. In any case beyond the fact that the iPhone has a superior distribution platform theres also the additional bonus that it has programmable shaders.

BTW the iPhone is the next big thing. It took 20% by absolute sales of the portable gaming market and likely 30% by publisher revenue given the better distribution platform. Thats pretty damn impressive.


Specs are not an excuse for spending more money when the returns don't rise accordingly.

And that's for portable gaming, not denying the Wii support.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Platinumeye on 12 June 2010

@sad.man.loves.vgc

Different users are satisfyed with the Wii's offerings at different levels. So stop generalizing.



LordTheNightKnight on 12 June 2010

"And even with all this, LP2 (PS360 combined) is tracking ahead of the Wii's MH3 (again, in the west)."

That still doesn't mean Monster Hunter would have sold better, since it is a more western appealing. And it's a bit off to the side, but all the extra time and cost isn't looking good when the game might end up scraping by with either half a million or less than a million.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

sad.man.loves.vgc on 12 June 2010
Platinumeye said:

@sad.man.loves.vgc

Different users are satisfyed with the Wii's offerings at different levels. So stop generalizing.


True, but I had to throw a stupid generilization because of much nonsense posted in this thread lol :)



Squilliam on 12 June 2010

I'll leave it there as theres nothing productive to be gained unfortunately. I fully respect your opinion however so I hope you can be satisfied with that.



Tease.