joeorc said: Solid_Snake4RD said: joeorc said: psst. Having already shrunk its powerful Cell processor used in the PS3 to a 45nm production process, IBM is planning to quickly transition to 22nm. their plan is to skip the 32nm scale! At 22nm, the existing techniques for microprocessor manufacturing useful at the 45nm and 32nm nodes will become obsolete.  While currently lithography techniques cannot produce 22nm circuitry, IBM has developed a new approach called Computational Scaling, which will allow for this tiny-scale production.  The new technique uses advanced mathematical computation to adjust the shape of the masks and illuminating source during etching. One key advantage of IBM's breakthrough is that it can advance from 32nm to 22nm without fundamental changes to its equipment.  While Intel and AMD are likely to devise similar techniques, the early breakthrough may allow IBM to seize a lead in shrinking, helping it to continue Moore's Law. the plan to skip 32nm was because when earlier they were reducing CELL to 32nm and skiping 45nm for the PS3,it was taking too much time so they and SONY decided to stop the 32nm reseach and went back to 45nm.   don't know whether they have altogether skipped 32nm.Now that they have 45nm,it would be easier to go to 32nm.   it could also be that they would stright go to 22nm for fall 2011 but they could also do that by taking out 32nm this fall and then 22nm next fall.it would take money for reseach of both of them but it will also save money for PS3 or they could dave the 32nm research costs and go straight to 22nm but will not get the cost saving they can make this fall. IBM is already at 22nm scale and have been since  they have already been perfecting the process for 22nm scale, and IBM are not the only one's EVEN Intel Intel Reveals 22nm Chips And Atom Developer Program At IDF Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - by Shawn Oliver Think 32nm is hot stuff? That's nothing. Today at the Intel Developer Forum in San Francisco, Intel showcased a silicon wafer containing the world's first working chips built on 22nm process technology. The 22nm test circuits included both SRAM memory as well as logic circuits to be used in future Intel microprocessors, and these days, any reduction in process technology size is a fairly significant step forward. And to think--Intel has introduced not one step down, but two in a single year. While we're currently using 45nm chips, Intel has showcased 32nm processors and now 22nm processors within the span of about six months. Paul Otellini, Intel's head man, had this to say about the announcement: At Intel, Moore's Law is alive and thriving. We've begun production of the world's first 32nm microprocessor, which is also the first high-performance processor to integrate graphics with the CPU. At the same time, we're already moving ahead with development of our 22nm manufacturing technology and have built working chips that will pave the way for production of still more powerful and more capable processors." The 22nm wafer displayed by Otellini is made up of individual die containing 364 million bits of SRAM memory and has more than 2.9 billion transistors packed into an area the size of a fingernail. Pretty insane, yeah? Here's a blurb from Intel on its upcoming plans--you know, since 32nm stuff is so early 2009. "By continuing to lead in manufacturing technology Intel is able to innovate and integrate new features and functions into its processors. Intel's 32nm process is now certified and Westmere processor wafers are moving through the factory in support of planned fourth quarter revenue production. Following the move to 32nm Intel will subsequently introduce Sandy Bridge, Intel's next new microarchitecture. Sandy Bridge will feature a sixth generation graphics core on the same die as the processor core and includes AVX instructions for floating point, media, and processor intensive software." Both Dell and Acer are already onboard with the program, and it sure sounds as if this is just the beginning of future netbook app stores. Now that would be something of interest! Developers can learn more about the program, APIs, validation process and application store framework through appdeveloper.intel.com. Applications for ISV and software developer memberships are currently being accepted. Members will be given access to tools and resources that will aid the pre-development process. The Intel Atom Developer Program software development kits will be available to members in late fall. As you can see 22nm is well on it's way it's pretty much on for a late 2010 to early 2011 release i would guess for the 22nm scale processor scale chip's. SOC processor's scale very well and very fast to shrink their size in very short amount of time. the Cell is also a SOC so it's nm scale reduction roadmap is pretty much inline as it is on the ATOM scale line at Intel, IBM and Toshiba have reduced the scale at a fast rate also, just like Intel has with the Atom line of processor's

that's crazy small:):)

This is wrong.  They were not making a profit until this new unit.  This new unit is the first time they have broken even or made any profit (depending on region).

joeorc said: Solid_Snake4RD said: joeorc said: psst. Having already shrunk its powerful Cell processor used in the PS3 to a 45nm production process, IBM is planning to quickly transition to 22nm. their plan is to skip the 32nm scale! At 22nm, the existing techniques for microprocessor manufacturing useful at the 45nm and 32nm nodes will become obsolete.  While currently lithography techniques cannot produce 22nm circuitry, IBM has developed a new approach called Computational Scaling, which will allow for this tiny-scale production.  The new technique uses advanced mathematical computation to adjust the shape of the masks and illuminating source during etching. One key advantage of IBM's breakthrough is that it can advance from 32nm to 22nm without fundamental changes to its equipment.  While Intel and AMD are likely to devise similar techniques, the early breakthrough may allow IBM to seize a lead in shrinking, helping it to continue Moore's Law. the plan to skip 32nm was because when earlier they were reducing CELL to 32nm and skiping 45nm for the PS3,it was taking too much time so they and SONY decided to stop the 32nm reseach and went back to 45nm.   don't know whether they have altogether skipped 32nm.Now that they have 45nm,it would be easier to go to 32nm.   it could also be that they would stright go to 22nm for fall 2011 but they could also do that by taking out 32nm this fall and then 22nm next fall.it would take money for reseach of both of them but it will also save money for PS3 or they could dave the 32nm research costs and go straight to 22nm but will not get the cost saving they can make this fall. IBM is already at 22nm scale and have been since  they have already been perfecting the process for 22nm scale, and IBM are not the only one's EVEN Intel Intel Reveals 22nm Chips And Atom Developer Program At IDF Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - by Shawn Oliver Think 32nm is hot stuff? That's nothing. Today at the Intel Developer Forum in San Francisco, Intel showcased a silicon wafer containing the world's first working chips built on 22nm process technology. The 22nm test circuits included both SRAM memory as well as logic circuits to be used in future Intel microprocessors, and these days, any reduction in process technology size is a fairly significant step forward. And to think--Intel has introduced not one step down, but two in a single year. While we're currently using 45nm chips, Intel has showcased 32nm processors and now 22nm processors within the span of about six months. Paul Otellini, Intel's head man, had this to say about the announcement: At Intel, Moore's Law is alive and thriving. We've begun production of the world's first 32nm microprocessor, which is also the first high-performance processor to integrate graphics with the CPU. At the same time, we're already moving ahead with development of our 22nm manufacturing technology and have built working chips that will pave the way for production of still more powerful and more capable processors." The 22nm wafer displayed by Otellini is made up of individual die containing 364 million bits of SRAM memory and has more than 2.9 billion transistors packed into an area the size of a fingernail. Pretty insane, yeah? Here's a blurb from Intel on its upcoming plans--you know, since 32nm stuff is so early 2009. "By continuing to lead in manufacturing technology Intel is able to innovate and integrate new features and functions into its processors. Intel's 32nm process is now certified and Westmere processor wafers are moving through the factory in support of planned fourth quarter revenue production. Following the move to 32nm Intel will subsequently introduce Sandy Bridge, Intel's next new microarchitecture. Sandy Bridge will feature a sixth generation graphics core on the same die as the processor core and includes AVX instructions for floating point, media, and processor intensive software." Both Dell and Acer are already onboard with the program, and it sure sounds as if this is just the beginning of future netbook app stores. Now that would be something of interest! Developers can learn more about the program, APIs, validation process and application store framework through appdeveloper.intel.com. Applications for ISV and software developer memberships are currently being accepted. Members will be given access to tools and resources that will aid the pre-development process. The Intel Atom Developer Program software development kits will be available to members in late fall. As you can see 22nm is well on it's way it's pretty much on for a late 2010 to early 2011 release i would guess for the 22nm scale processor scale chip's.

didn't say IBM wasn't developing 22nm process but the time it will take to come up with it will take atleast till FALL 2011.

likwe in past SONY canceled the 32nm process cause it was taking too much time and went back to researching 45nm.it could be that they skipped 32nm for all time and now concentrating on 22nm but they could save more money this fall by getting 32nm in the PS3's which will be available

SONY themselsves said they were making profits from the PS3 SLIM launched in SPETEMBER 2009 in JAN-MAR quarter and would further make profits when 40nm is introduced in MAY 2010

yup. even before this new playstation 3 with the smaller gpu inside shipped.

The best thing is that they say right on the front of the box "Netflix Streaming Free". Then in the small print it says "US residents only". I live in Canada and it strikes me as odd that they would do that!

most likely as SONY will do another  revision as they did 3-4 with PS2 SLIM models.And with the massive price reduction next year,it will only help.

yeah the same thing,it would be nice to get nwtflix out of US.

and the fact that it is so cheap but i think even if they did it would be cheap for us outside as NETFIX would have some contract with US internet opertors for cheap bandwidth,there is no way they would output 1080p for $8 a month ouside US.

yea i know i'm not saying that, i am saying that IBM already spent their investment back in 2008 to get to the 22nm scale just like Intel did for their Atom chip's.

since like the ATOM the Cell processor is also a SOC so there has already been if you take both companies road map's they both have been getting to that point at roughly the same time.

so with already both Intel , and IBM and already here at this :

as an example:

At 32nm a single fab can cost $4B and in just two years it’ll need to be upgraded (to the tune of around a billion) to support 22nm production. For AMD to support the costs alone and remain competitive with Intel, it would have to virtually own the x86 microprocessor market. Even when AMD held the technology crown, that didn’t happen.

The other alternative is to subsidize the cost of these expensive factories over multiple customers. This is where things get interesting. AMD alone may not be able to fill a fab and make the investment pay off, but AMD + Sony + Toshiba + NVIDIA + etc... can definitely make it work.

late 2010 and early 2011 it seem's is the timeline for 22nm scale's.

here is some great PDF's about the SOC scaling and the roadmap's for chip's not just processor's in the 22nm scale.

http://openpdf.com/ebook/45nm-32nm-22nm-pdf.html

No they were not making profit on PS3 hardware at all until this new unit.  Your info, Solid_Snake, is wrong.