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Forums - Sony - Final Fantasy XIII, the best ever?

Lost tears of Kain on 28 November 2007
naznatips said:
SlorgNet said:
ssj12 said:
flagship said:
Nah, FF13 will have the same problem X and 12 did, far too much focus on graphics, combat system changes and showing off how "unique" the world is and not enough focus on character development and plot.

character development really wasnt the main focus of FFXII it was fighting and protecting a nation.


Not at all. FF12's characters, dialogue, acting and storyline are some of the best stuff ever created in a videogame, or any other media, for that matter. I'm not just saying this for the sake of saying so. I'm comparing FF12 to other high-powered works of art like these: 

http://www.efn.org/~dredmond/21stCenturyMap.html

FF12 is simply light-years beyond all the previous FF games. Three credible, complex, empathic female characters, a storyline drenched in geopolitics, sophisticated themes dealing with identity, race, nationality, loyalty and fidelity, etc. The characters work as an ensemble, and each of them matures, grows and changes over time.


I guess everyone can have their opinions, but I feel the exact opposite about FFXII.  It was completely barebones on character development and instead focused on their Star Wars ripoff political plot.  Penelo had no personality and Ashe was just a bitch.  I admit though Fran was a good character.  As far as character development: The game ended with Vaan still the brat, Penelo still the sidekick, Ashe slightly less of a bitch, Fran and Balthier still the arrogant sky pirates.  Nothing really changed.  The whole game felt like the existence of the characters was simply pointless.

I'm curious: Have you actually played the previous FF games?  You are a rare breed.  Most people who have played the previous FF games found XII extremely lacking in character development and plot, yet you praise it.  What FF games have you played before XII, and what didn't you like about them? 

Edit:  And I forgot about Basch. I always forget about Basch.  Probably because he had no personality and a retarded cliche "evil twin" story.  


Agreed completey. Ive met very VERY few (one or two?) FF fans that perferred FF 12s story to any other. GT themselves gave it a 8 because it lacked its emotion and soul like the games before it.

Basch is the only decent character in my mind and they still ruined him. So sad.

BTW cloud was NOT emo, was a great character, though he had a few problems. Zidane has been my least favorite man character (besides vann.......man i hate him). I could not get used to his danm tail, and he looked so weird!. That and he was cocky as hell. Vivi was by far the best character in that game.

 

BTW does anyone know if they are remaking 6 for psp?



                 With regard to Call of Duty 4 having an ultra short single player campaign, I guess it may well have been due to the size limitations of DVD on the XBox 360, one of various limitations multi-platform game designers will have to take into consideration-Mike B   

Proud supporter of all 3 console companys

Proud owner of 360wii and DS/psp              

Game trailers-Halo 3 only dissapointed the people who wanted to be dissapointed.

Bet with Harvey Birdman that Lost Odyssey will sell more then Blue dragon did.
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ssj12 on 28 November 2007
Lost tears of Kain said:
naznatips said:
SlorgNet said:
ssj12 said:
flagship said:
Nah, FF13 will have the same problem X and 12 did, far too much focus on graphics, combat system changes and showing off how "unique" the world is and not enough focus on character development and plot.

character development really wasnt the main focus of FFXII it was fighting and protecting a nation.


Not at all. FF12's characters, dialogue, acting and storyline are some of the best stuff ever created in a videogame, or any other media, for that matter. I'm not just saying this for the sake of saying so. I'm comparing FF12 to other high-powered works of art like these: 

http://www.efn.org/~dredmond/21stCenturyMap.html

FF12 is simply light-years beyond all the previous FF games. Three credible, complex, empathic female characters, a storyline drenched in geopolitics, sophisticated themes dealing with identity, race, nationality, loyalty and fidelity, etc. The characters work as an ensemble, and each of them matures, grows and changes over time.


I guess everyone can have their opinions, but I feel the exact opposite about FFXII.  It was completely barebones on character development and instead focused on their Star Wars ripoff political plot.  Penelo had no personality and Ashe was just a bitch.  I admit though Fran was a good character.  As far as character development: The game ended with Vaan still the brat, Penelo still the sidekick, Ashe slightly less of a bitch, Fran and Balthier still the arrogant sky pirates.  Nothing really changed.  The whole game felt like the existence of the characters was simply pointless.

I'm curious: Have you actually played the previous FF games?  You are a rare breed.  Most people who have played the previous FF games found XII extremely lacking in character development and plot, yet you praise it.  What FF games have you played before XII, and what didn't you like about them? 

Edit:  And I forgot about Basch. I always forget about Basch.  Probably because he had no personality and a retarded cliche "evil twin" story.  


Agreed completey. Ive met very VERY few (one or two?) FF fans that perferred FF 12s story to any other. GT themselves gave it a 8 because it lacked its emotion and soul like the games before it.

Basch is the only decent character in my mind and they still ruined him. So sad.

BTW cloud was NOT emo, was a great character, though he had a few problems. Zidane has been my least favorite man character (besides vann.......man i hate him). I could not get used to his danm tail, and he looked so weird!. That and he was cocky as hell. Vivi was by far the best character in that game.

 

BTW does anyone know if they are remaking 6 for psp?


 my favorite's go as the following: FFI, FFXII, FFXI, FFIX, FFX, FFVII, FFVIII, FFV, FFIII, FFII,  FFIV,  FFVI, FFX-2



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naznatips on 29 November 2007
Edouble24 said:
naznatips said:
souixan said:

"1) Battle Mode
FFXIII will retain the fast-paced, real-time battle system seen in FFXII, relying on command inputs to decide a scrap. "

I lost interest right there, I played this interface on FFXI for 4 years and it destroyed FFXII for me and if FFXIII is the same... I'll pass..

And god damnit Cloud was so wussy >.> Locke, Setzer, Celes, Kain, Cecil >.> those are characters damnit!


Here here!

Male FF characters became too girly after VI. With the notable exceptions of FFIX's characters and Auron from FFX.

Also Jessman there was nothing Futuristic about Ivalice in XII. In fact, that's one of the few things they did right. A fantasy setting > a sci-fi setting.

May I ask what exactly was girly about Cloud, Barret, Cid, Vincent and Red XIII? At first I assumed you might have been talking about their looks but then you mentioned FFIXs characters were an exception. So just curious, what makes them girly to you?

Oh and FFXII had some pretty shallow character development...It seemed like Ashe was the only one with a hint of character development and even she barely had any.


Yeah, I was talking about the artwork, although actually after VII their personalities became girly too...

FFIX characters definitely did not have the girly art style.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/Adelbert_Steiner.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Amarant_Coral_character.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Vivi_Ornitier_character.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c2/Zidane_Tribal_character.jpg

Zidane maybe a little, but nothing like Cloud.  If you gave Cloud long red hair you couldn't tell him apart from Aeris.   Also Tears Zidane was hilarious because of how cocky he was.  Plus, unlike Cloud, he seemed to genuinly care about others.  Cloud did near the end of the game, but Zidane would sacrifice himself in an instant to help others, wheras Cloud's motivation was much more selfish.  

Also Edouble, you didn't like FFIX's supporting cast?  They had sooo much character development!  Vivi's story and deep questions about the nature of existence and the soul, the struggles of Garnet and her purpose and location in life, Steiner's conflicts between duty and morality, Freya's search for her lost love and her grief over the loss of her people, Amarant's great clashing of personalities with Zidane and his quest for ultimate power, and Eiko's search for a true family, and even Quina provided great comic relief with his(its) desire to find new foods to eat.  

FFIX has a masterful cast of characters and does a brilliant job of developing them and making you fall in love with each of them.



Edouble24 on 29 November 2007

I think Zidane and Kuja look more girly than Cloud and Sephiroth. Kuja is wearing a thong for crying out loud...but to each his own. Here is a look at Kuja though. Also Barret, Cid, and Red XIII hardly look girly. I don't think Cloud's art looked all that girly either. 

As for the supporting cast in FFIX, they did have development I just didn't like most of them. I liked Zidane and Viva, Steiner was the comic relief to me and the rest I just didn't really care for. Coming off of Skies of Arcadia and Grandia 2, FFIX's cast just seemed lacking to me. I played all 3 of those back to back.



naznatips on 29 November 2007

Kuja was a villain. Part of his creepiness was how feminine he was. Sephiroth was supposed to be cool, but somehow was still feminine.



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Lost tears of Kain on 29 November 2007

agreed its down to preference cause nothing, hell not even vann looks moe gayer then kuja.

and hes supposed to be evil!



                 With regard to Call of Duty 4 having an ultra short single player campaign, I guess it may well have been due to the size limitations of DVD on the XBox 360, one of various limitations multi-platform game designers will have to take into consideration-Mike B   

Proud supporter of all 3 console companys

Proud owner of 360wii and DS/psp              

Game trailers-Halo 3 only dissapointed the people who wanted to be dissapointed.

Bet with Harvey Birdman that Lost Odyssey will sell more then Blue dragon did.
naznatips on 29 November 2007

Cloud doesn't look feminine??? He's prettier than Lightning!

Oh and Sephiroth:

He's wearing eye liner and lipstick for Christ's sake!

Don't get me wrong, Kuja is more girly, but he was supposed to be.  Sephiroth was not supposed to be.



Edouble24 on 29 November 2007
naznatips said:
Kuja was a villain. Part of his creepiness was how feminine he was. Sephiroth was supposed to be cool, but somehow was still feminine.

I read somewhere that Kuja was originally a female and they changed his gender and just never changed the design of the character.

oh and Vaan takes the cake for girliest looking character ever. 

MAYBE Kuja beats him but it's a close battle if you go by this CG artwork.  

 



Edouble24 on 29 November 2007

well that's a newer picture of Cloud. In FFVII I don't think he looked any more like a girl than Zidane did, especially during the in-game cutscenes. His artwork wasn't so bad either

 

Not so bad if you ask me. But Barret, Cid and Red XIII surely didn't look like girls. Well maybe Barret did

 

oh and that pic of Sephiroth was an early pic for Advent Children. They completely redid the model.  



naznatips on 29 November 2007

And yes, Vaan is obviously a teenage girl with a poorly done sex change operation. It doesn't bother me for villains to be somewhat girly. Heck, Kefka was pretty creepy and feminine as a clown. It's just heroes. I really don't like playing as overly feminine main characters. If they are going to make them that feminine, then make the main character a girl. I have no problems with that at all.