VI had the best cast over all in my opinion. It had such an incredibly strong supporting cast it's almost hard to call Terra the main character in the story. Celes, Locke, Sabin, and Edgar each could almost be the main character. Then add in Cyan, Setzer, Shadow and a bunch of other bad asses and you've got one hell of a team. And Kefka is still the best Final Fantasy Villain. Sephiroth was cool and bad ass, and a close second but you just can't match the sadist clown.

naznatips said: souixan said: "1) Battle Mode FFXIII will retain the fast-paced, real-time battle system seen in FFXII, relying on command inputs to decide a scrap. " I lost interest right there, I played this interface on FFXI for 4 years and it destroyed FFXII for me and if FFXIII is the same... I'll pass.. And god damnit Cloud was so wussy >.> Locke, Setzer, Celes, Kain, Cecil >.> those are characters damnit! Here here! Male FF characters became too girly after VI. With the notable exceptions of FFIX's characters and Auron from FFX. Also Jessman there was nothing Futuristic about Ivalice in XII. In fact, that's one of the few things they did right. A fantasy setting > a sci-fi setting.

Agreed, right when Final Fantasy switched from Fantasy to Future setting is about when I lost interest in the series, which sucks because I used to live and die by Final Fantasy.. I still buy them every-time hoping but aside from 9 and 11 I've been disappointed. 7 was okay but I don't see why everybody heralds it as some sort of god I loved that it started the FMV cut scenes but other then that I like 6 much better. And Celes was more of a man than Cloud and Celes was a chick..

ssj12 said: flagship said: Nah, FF13 will have the same problem X and 12 did, far too much focus on graphics, combat system changes and showing off how "unique" the world is and not enough focus on character development and plot. character development really wasnt the main focus of FFXII it was fighting and protecting a nation.

Not at all. FF12's characters, dialogue, acting and storyline are some of the best stuff ever created in a videogame, or any other media, for that matter. I'm not just saying this for the sake of saying so. I'm comparing FF12 to other high-powered works of art like these: 

http://www.efn.org/~dredmond/21stCenturyMap.html

FF12 is simply light-years beyond all the previous FF games. Three credible, complex, empathic female characters, a storyline drenched in geopolitics, sophisticated themes dealing with identity, race, nationality, loyalty and fidelity, etc. The characters work as an ensemble, and each of them matures, grows and changes over time.

souixan said: naznatips said: souixan said: "1) Battle Mode FFXIII will retain the fast-paced, real-time battle system seen in FFXII, relying on command inputs to decide a scrap. " I lost interest right there, I played this interface on FFXI for 4 years and it destroyed FFXII for me and if FFXIII is the same... I'll pass.. And god damnit Cloud was so wussy >.> Locke, Setzer, Celes, Kain, Cecil >.> those are characters damnit! Here here! Male FF characters became too girly after VI. With the notable exceptions of FFIX's characters and Auron from FFX. Also Jessman there was nothing Futuristic about Ivalice in XII. In fact, that's one of the few things they did right. A fantasy setting > a sci-fi setting.   Agreed, right when Final Fantasy switched from Fantasy to Future setting is about when I lost interest in the series, which sucks because I used to live and die by Final Fantasy.. I still buy them every-time hoping but aside from 9 and 11 I've been disappointed. 7 was okay but I don't see why everybody heralds it as some sort of god I loved that it started the FMV cut scenes but other then that I like 6 much better. And Celes was more of a man than Cloud and Celes was a chick..

 

That pretty much sums up my feelings of the Final Fantasy series too.

For me, the lack of the hate system from FF XI is frustrating.  No matter what I do or what gambits I equip, the character I controll recieves 75% of the damage.  The two that are on autodrive are pounding away at the baddie, yet I get all the aggro.  If there was a "pervoke" licence that you could aquire for anybody that has say Lvl 4 heavy armour, than that would have made a huge difference.

SlorgNet said: ssj12 said: flagship said: Nah, FF13 will have the same problem X and 12 did, far too much focus on graphics, combat system changes and showing off how "unique" the world is and not enough focus on character development and plot. character development really wasnt the main focus of FFXII it was fighting and protecting a nation. Not at all. FF12's characters, dialogue, acting and storyline are some of the best stuff ever created in a videogame, or any other media, for that matter. I'm not just saying this for the sake of saying so. I'm comparing FF12 to other high-powered works of art like these:  http://www.efn.org/~dredmond/21stCenturyMap.html FF12 is simply light-years beyond all the previous FF games. Three credible, complex, empathic female characters, a storyline drenched in geopolitics, sophisticated themes dealing with identity, race, nationality, loyalty and fidelity, etc. The characters work as an ensemble, and each of them matures, grows and changes over time.

I guess everyone can have their opinions, but I feel the exact opposite about FFXII.  It was completely barebones on character development and instead focused on their Star Wars ripoff political plot.  Penelo had no personality and Ashe was just a bitch.  I admit though Fran was a good character.  As far as character development: The game ended with Vaan still the brat, Penelo still the sidekick, Ashe slightly less of a bitch, Fran and Balthier still the arrogant sky pirates.  Nothing really changed.  The whole game felt like the existence of the characters was simply pointless.

I'm curious: Have you actually played the previous FF games?  You are a rare breed.  Most people who have played the previous FF games found XII extremely lacking in character development and plot, yet you praise it.  What FF games have you played before XII, and what didn't you like about them? 

Edit:  And I forgot about Basch. I always forget about Basch.  Probably because he had no personality and a retarded cliche "evil twin" story.  

FF III-IX

naznatips said: souixan said: "1) Battle Mode FFXIII will retain the fast-paced, real-time battle system seen in FFXII, relying on command inputs to decide a scrap. " I lost interest right there, I played this interface on FFXI for 4 years and it destroyed FFXII for me and if FFXIII is the same... I'll pass.. And god damnit Cloud was so wussy >.> Locke, Setzer, Celes, Kain, Cecil >.> those are characters damnit! Here here! Male FF characters became too girly after VI. With the notable exceptions of FFIX's characters and Auron from FFX. Also Jessman there was nothing Futuristic about Ivalice in XII. In fact, that's one of the few things they did right. A fantasy setting > a sci-fi setting.

May I ask what exactly was girly about Cloud, Barret, Cid, Vincent and Red XIII? At first I assumed you might have been talking about their looks but then you mentioned FFIXs characters were an exception. So just curious, what makes them girly to you?

Oh and FFXII had some pretty shallow character development...It seemed like Ashe was the only one with a hint of character development and even she barely had any.

Well Final Fantasy games have only gotten better and better with each game since FFX and with Square losing talent left and right that only ensures a more consolidated focus on game design and less conflict between artistic opinions. I mean, when you consider these factors, how can't this be the best Final Fantasy yet?

No thoughts on the KOTOR like battle system. You queue a attacks real time in battle, not in a menu. It doesn't much like FF 12.

Also, Balthier and Basch were both manly. They were not girly characters.

SlorgNet said: ssj12 said: flagship said: Nah, FF13 will have the same problem X and 12 did, far too much focus on graphics, combat system changes and showing off how "unique" the world is and not enough focus on character development and plot. character development really wasnt the main focus of FFXII it was fighting and protecting a nation. Not at all. FF12's characters, dialogue, acting and storyline are some of the best stuff ever created in a videogame, or any other media, for that matter. I'm not just saying this for the sake of saying so. I'm comparing FF12 to other high-powered works of art like these: http://www.efn.org/~dredmond/21stCenturyMap.html FF12 is simply light-years beyond all the previous FF games. Three credible, complex, empathic female characters, a storyline drenched in geopolitics, sophisticated themes dealing with identity, race, nationality, loyalty and fidelity, etc. The characters work as an ensemble, and each of them matures, grows and changes over time.

I'll give FFXII the best voice acting but that's about it. I suppose I could budge on the dialogue since it was properly translated (or assume it was) but it really didn't have anything other than that.

A good character in a story changes. From what I've heard the characters in FFXII don't change. Vaan stays the dumbfuck that he started and still never has a reason to be there. Penelo...she was just pathetic.  Basch was more cliche than Squall. Ashe was almost as cliche as Basch and just as uninteresting. I guess I didn't play long enough for Fran to be interesting other than the token sex symbol. I kept hearing how Balthier was a badass but I never saw much reason for him being there in the first place and he really wasn't that interesting in the first place.

Now you can say that I know jack shit since I didn't finish the game and only going off the little I played and what I've heard the vast majority of people say, but I'm pretty sure I have about the right opinions on this game. I tried to get into this game twice and both times the story and characters bored me to tears. I kept telling myself while playing the game it has to get good soon, it must get interesting at some point but you know what? The furthest I got in that game was about 15 hours and a game shouldn't take 15 hours to get good. I would say I gave FFXII a very valiant effort.