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Forums - General - UK General Election, Election Day and Results Thread

 

UK General Election, Election Day and Results Thread

New Labour - Gordon Brown 9 17.65%
 
Conservatives - David Cameron 15 29.41%
 
Liberal Democrats - Nick Clegg 21 41.18%
 
UKIP - Lord Pearson 3 5.88%
 
Green Party - Caroline Lucas 0 0%
 
Others (National Parties,... 3 5.88%
 
Total:51
Kasz216 said:

Here's a silly idea. What if they agree to the house of lords being elected AND it being proportionally elected.

While keeping the rest of parliment the same.  Might give a nice balance.

Problem is it means two mandates.

Currently the house of lords largely acts to slow down for debate anything that wasn't in the governments manifesto when they campaigned, anything else they are considered to have a mandate to implement and the Lords shouldn't block it. If both are elected then the lords will have a seperate and possible contradicting mandate - meaning that the house of commons no longer has the prime mandate to govern as it currently does.



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Soleron said:
Kasz216 said:

Here's a silly idea. What if they agree to the house of lords being elected AND it being proportionally elected.

While keeping the rest of parliment the same.  Might give a nice balance.

That sounds a lot like the American system (two houses, two different methods). It would mean no single election could radically change the balance of power in the Houses.

But how would the Government be formed? Majority in the Commons? Both houses? Presidential system?

I don't see why you couldn't keep it just the Majority of the Commons.

The change would mostly be a symbolic move, that would be seen as a step foward for the Lib Dems and instead of argueing for PR, they can argue for Expanded PR or Expanded rights for the House of Lords.



Rath said:
Kasz216 said:

Here's a silly idea. What if they agree to the house of lords being elected AND it being proportionally elected.

While keeping the rest of parliment the same.  Might give a nice balance.

Problem is it means two mandates.

Currently the house of lords largely acts to slow down for debate anything that wasn't in the governments manifesto when they campaigned, anything else they are considered to have a mandate to implement and the Lords shouldn't block it. If both are elected then the lords will have a seperate and possible contradicting mandate - meaning that the house of commons no longer has the prime mandate to govern as it currently does.

That is only likely to happen very rarely though right, when the elections are closer?

Most of the time the winning party will win both.



Kasz216 said:
...

That is only likely to happen very rarely though right, when the elections are closer?

Most of the time the winning party will win both.

Look at the US. There's been plenty of times where they've had one of the three of {President, Senate, Representatives} a different colour to the others.



Soleron said:
Kasz216 said:
...

That is only likely to happen very rarely though right, when the elections are closer?

Most of the time the winning party will win both.

Look at the US. There's been plenty of times where they've had one of the three of {President, Senate, Representatives} a different colour to the others.

Nine times out of ten it's always the President.  Which is meaningless since your "President" is elected by whoever wins the House of Commons.


The other times it tends to be only because of "transitional" shifts within the Senate.  Unlike you, we don't re-elect our entire congress at one time.

At any election only 1/3rd of our senators are up for reelection.  So if the Democrats were to suddenly massivly lose popularity and lose the house and the Presidency it could take up to 6 years for the republicans to take the senate depending on how the cards play for reelection.

 

 

 



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Kasz216 said:
...

At any election only 1/3rd of our senators are up for reelection.  So if the Democrats were to suddenly massivly lose popularity and lose the house and the Presidency it could take up to 6 years for the republicans to take the senate depending on how the cards play for reelection.

 

Yes. You don't get rapid change even if the public wants it. Personally I think that's a bad thing.

Actually, your Supreme Court is even worse at that, because your judges have political colour (WTF). Even if the whole country would want a progressive court, it would take 10 years to reduce the power of the Republican judges.



Soleron said:
Kasz216 said:
...

At any election only 1/3rd of our senators are up for reelection.  So if the Democrats were to suddenly massivly lose popularity and lose the house and the Presidency it could take up to 6 years for the republicans to take the senate depending on how the cards play for reelection.

 

Yes. You don't get rapid change even if the public wants it. Personally I think that's a bad thing.

Actually, your Supreme Court is even worse at that, because your judges have political colour (WTF). Even if the whole country would want a progressive court, it would take 10 years to reduce the power of the Republican judges.

Like I said though, that's only due to us not voting everyone in at once.  If you kept your election cycle it'd be the same as it is now.


Really it's harder to get change in the US too because our representatives are always changed districts wise so there is no point to run against them.

Something like 80-90% of our house of representatives don't face any real competition.



headshot91 said:
kowenicki said:
I am getting rather annoyed with the lib-dems...

It is patently obvious that they arent now working in the best interests of the country at all.

The ONLY thing they want guaranteed is political reform, thats about the best interests of the Lib-Dems and not the people of this country. Whats happened to all their principles on "fairness" in the economy and the massive change in immigration and defence.. you know real issues that affect people every day.... all of these can apparently be sacrifised apparentrly so long as tyhey get political rfeform. Weak, spineless self serving politicians... as per usual.

Labnour are even worse... they are saying they will agree to everything and anything to hang in there. sickening.

If we end up with a coalition of losers then I, and I think the vocal majority, will be mighty pissed off. I'd expect Nick Clegg to get an absolute mauling in the press if he sells his soul and integrity for a slice of power... a slice of power that wont last 6 months in my opinion. A lib/lab agreement is built on sand and would evaporate very very quickly.

Gordon Brown hasnt won anything ever... he didn't win an election of even his peers to become party leader, he didn't win an election to become prime minister and now he has lost another election as leader... and he has the chance to stay as Prime Minsiter.... and this is democratic is it? Do me a favour... it stinks!!!!

That statement does not make ANY sense. Lib dems got 6 mill votes. Labour got 8 mill. Conservaties got 10 mill. YET, LD got LESS than a quarter of the conservative seat count. How is that fair? How is that not good for the people, when LD get almost 2/3 of conservative, and almost 3/4 of labour votes, but are stuck with less than a quarter of the seats. Of course its for the LD, they are not being represente well, even though they got so many votes. Proportional representation is what they want, and its best for everyone.

I agree with you. Kowenicki is so blinded by a single perspective that he doesn't acknowledge that there are all sorts of equally valid views about what the Lib Dems are doing. Why don't we just say that Con-Lib would be a coalition of two unpopular groups? After all, the Conservatives only managed 36%... It is silly really. People are bleating all over the place without realising they sound daft. Everybody is right and wrong at the same time.

As for Gordon Brown, didn't he win his seat? Again?

And why politicians get served everytime is beyond me... they are just like any of us and seeing the worst in them all the time is just ridiculous.



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

kowenicki said:
I am getting rather annoyed with the lib-dems...

It is patently obvious that they arent now working in the best interests of the country at all.

The ONLY thing they want guaranteed is political reform, thats about the best interests of the Lib-Dems and not the people of this country. Whats happened to all their principles on "fairness" in the economy and the massive change in immigration and defence.. you know real issues that affect people every day.... all of these can apparently be sacrifised apparentrly so long as tyhey get political rfeform. Weak, spineless self serving politicians... as per usual.

Labnour are even worse... they are saying they will agree to everything and anything to hang in there. sickening.

If we end up with a coalition of losers then I, and I think the vocal majority, will be mighty pissed off. I'd expect Nick Clegg to get an absolute mauling in the press if he sells his soul and integrity for a slice of power... a slice of power that wont last 6 months in my opinion. A lib/lab agreement is built on sand and would evaporate very very quickly.

Gordon Brown hasnt won anything ever... he didn't win an election of even his peers to become party leader, he didn't win an election to become prime minister and now he has lost another election as leader... and he has the chance to stay as Prime Minsiter.... and this is democratic is it? Do me a favour... it stinks!!!!

1. the "best interests of the country" is about as subjective a statement as exists in politics...

2. hardly, infact most of there talk so far has been about the economy (and this is according to the Conservatives btw...) but of course, they want something in return for there support in a co-allition, thats fair enough and how these things work elsewhere. also, most opinion polls have show public support for electoral reform...

3. Labour have every right to hold out for a co-allition of there own, heck until an alternative is found, the constitution itself says that the PM stays on, so all this right wing media guff about Brown clinging on is utter drivel and only shows their complete ignorance of the system.

4. they would be a co-alition with more seats and considerably more votes than the Conservatives (on their own) have...the majourity of people would have voted for one of the parties in the co-allition...its only the media morons who wouldnt be able to see that...

5. okay, let me explain this for you, this is how the UK Political System works and has done for many years:

when you vote, you vote for a Party and there candidate in your constituency.

you do not, unless you live in their constituency, vote for the person who becomes PM

the PM is the leader of the party with the most seats in the Commons (or the leader of the co-allition)

so, HE won HIS seat, several times in fact...

HIS party won the 2005 election, he became leader of that party in 2007 as he was the only person who stood and no-one opposed him to become leader, they had every oppurtunity to have opposed him before he took that position.

do you understand now, how our system works? or do you just want to ignore this like the media?



whoa!

Gordon Brown has opened talks with the Liberal Democrats, he is live now saying so, apparantly he just spoke to the Clegg, Brown will step down ahead of the Labour conference in Autumn to allow a new leader to take charge!