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Forums - General - To those adults who have/have not earned a college degree...

mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
IDK, college is simply another way of automatically weeding out the prospective employees. Although it's an expensive way to prove work ethic O.o But what else are we going to do to prove it?

Tests?

Its a really crappy thing to require a $50,000 piece of paper to say you can, or cannot do something. It doesn't mean your very good at something - just that the college says you can.

The real test for any job would be to test the employee for a probationary period to see if they can do what they say they can.

For example, if your a web programmer, there are many tests you can take to prove the validity of your skills for sites like E-lance, and you get graded on your work to show prospective employers....That is a great way to do it.

Most local governments have a good way of doing it via civil service tests. They give you a test based on required skills for the job you are wanting. They grade all the prospective employees to see how well they did on the test, and take the top 5-15 candidates. Then they schedule interviews to see how legitimate they are with the potential job.

I mean, to me it's the same. Some arbitrary and unrelated test to measure how good you'll be at a job. I mean, what test can be truly measure your ability to do a job? It's ultimately job experience that teaches you.



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Akvod said:
mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
IDK, college is simply another way of automatically weeding out the prospective employees. Although it's an expensive way to prove work ethic O.o But what else are we going to do to prove it?

Tests?

Its a really crappy thing to require a $50,000 piece of paper to say you can, or cannot do something. It doesn't mean your very good at something - just that the college says you can.

The real test for any job would be to test the employee for a probationary period to see if they can do what they say they can.

For example, if your a web programmer, there are many tests you can take to prove the validity of your skills for sites like E-lance, and you get graded on your work to show prospective employers....That is a great way to do it.

Most local governments have a good way of doing it via civil service tests. They give you a test based on required skills for the job you are wanting. They grade all the prospective employees to see how well they did on the test, and take the top 5-15 candidates. Then they schedule interviews to see how legitimate they are with the potential job.

I mean, to me it's the same. Some arbitrary and unrelated test to measure how good you'll be at a job. I mean, what test can be truly measure your ability to do a job? It's ultimately job experience that teaches you.

Well, it depends on what kind of job we're talking about.

I never suggested an arbitrary or unrelated test. I never stated the kind of test either.

For example, when I got hired as a business analyst at the company I work for, I was requested to do a business analysis on the company's website as well as its monetization structure, and an analysis of a competing market.

I produced 2, 20-page reports. I got the job the next week.

That was the test they gave me. They used the test to show if I really knew what I needed to about business analysis and presentation, as they flew me to their company HQ for the presentation.

In many job scenarios, I would imagine that similar tests would be very critical. For example, if you were in the IT field as a database manager, I would expect that a good test would be for them to give you a piece of SQL database, and ask you to generate reports based on their requests within a given amount of time.

For other scenarios that such tests may not be viable - such as a CEO - that is where your group of contacts works wonders. If people know you, your skills and abilities, they can reccomend you for jobs, as they can vouch for you meeting the criteria the job has demanded. Furthermore, that is why many 100k+ jobs require a few years' experience in a relevant field. If I keep up my work as an analyst, I could easily apply for a job somewhere else, and make 2-4 times as much money as I would have the or equivilent experience part of many job requirements....Despite the fact I lack any and all college courses in that field.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
IDK, college is simply another way of automatically weeding out the prospective employees. Although it's an expensive way to prove work ethic O.o But what else are we going to do to prove it?

Tests?

Its a really crappy thing to require a $50,000 piece of paper to say you can, or cannot do something. It doesn't mean your very good at something - just that the college says you can.

The real test for any job would be to test the employee for a probationary period to see if they can do what they say they can.

For example, if your a web programmer, there are many tests you can take to prove the validity of your skills for sites like E-lance, and you get graded on your work to show prospective employers....That is a great way to do it.

Most local governments have a good way of doing it via civil service tests. They give you a test based on required skills for the job you are wanting. They grade all the prospective employees to see how well they did on the test, and take the top 5-15 candidates. Then they schedule interviews to see how legitimate they are with the potential job.

I mean, to me it's the same. Some arbitrary and unrelated test to measure how good you'll be at a job. I mean, what test can be truly measure your ability to do a job? It's ultimately job experience that teaches you.

Well, it depends on what kind of job we're talking about.

I never suggested an arbitrary or unrelated test. I never stated the kind of test either.

For example, when I got hired as a business analyst at the company I work for, I was requested to do a business analysis on the company's website as well as its monetization structure, and an analysis of a competing market.

I produced 2, 20-page reports. I got the job the next week.

That was the test they gave me. They used the test to show if I really knew what I needed to about business analysis and presentation, as they flew me to their company HQ for the presentation.

In many job scenarios, I would imagine that similar tests would be very critical. For example, if you were in the IT field as a database manager, I would expect that a good test would be for them to give you a piece of SQL database, and ask you to generate reports based on their requests within a given amount of time.

For other scenarios that such tests may not be viable - such as a CEO - that is where your group of contacts works wonders. If people know you, your skills and abilities, they can reccomend you for jobs, as they can vouch for you meeting the criteria the job has demanded. Furthermore, that is why many 100k+ jobs require a few years' experience in a relevant field. If I keep up my work as an analyst, I could easily apply for a job somewhere else, and make 2-4 times as much money as I would have the or equivilent experience part of many job requirements....Despite the fact I lack any and all college courses in that field.

Yeah, but the test was essentially doing the job.

I'm talking about how we can possibly issue a test, for a job that isn't taught at a University. That was my point. There are some, no, many, that you have to learn how to do by gaining job experience before, and after you get the job.



mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
IDK, college is simply another way of automatically weeding out the prospective employees. Although it's an expensive way to prove work ethic O.o But what else are we going to do to prove it?

Tests?

Its a really crappy thing to require a $50,000 piece of paper to say you can, or cannot do something. It doesn't mean your very good at something - just that the college says you can.

The real test for any job would be to test the employee for a probationary period to see if they can do what they say they can.

For example, if your a web programmer, there are many tests you can take to prove the validity of your skills for sites like E-lance, and you get graded on your work to show prospective employers....That is a great way to do it.

Most local governments have a good way of doing it via civil service tests. They give you a test based on required skills for the job you are wanting. They grade all the prospective employees to see how well they did on the test, and take the top 5-15 candidates. Then they schedule interviews to see how legitimate they are with the potential job.

I mean, to me it's the same. Some arbitrary and unrelated test to measure how good you'll be at a job. I mean, what test can be truly measure your ability to do a job? It's ultimately job experience that teaches you.

Well, it depends on what kind of job we're talking about.

I never suggested an arbitrary or unrelated test. I never stated the kind of test either.

For example, when I got hired as a business analyst at the company I work for, I was requested to do a business analysis on the company's website as well as its monetization structure, and an analysis of a competing market.

I produced 2, 20-page reports. I got the job the next week.

That was the test they gave me. They used the test to show if I really knew what I needed to about business analysis and presentation, as they flew me to their company HQ for the presentation.

In many job scenarios, I would imagine that similar tests would be very critical. For example, if you were in the IT field as a database manager, I would expect that a good test would be for them to give you a piece of SQL database, and ask you to generate reports based on their requests within a given amount of time.

For other scenarios that such tests may not be viable - such as a CEO - that is where your group of contacts works wonders. If people know you, your skills and abilities, they can reccomend you for jobs, as they can vouch for you meeting the criteria the job has demanded. Furthermore, that is why many 100k+ jobs require a few years' experience in a relevant field. If I keep up my work as an analyst, I could easily apply for a job somewhere else, and make 2-4 times as much money as I would have the or equivilent experience part of many job requirements....Despite the fact I lack any and all college courses in that field.

Good points, however, if an employer is looking at two people with similar past job experiences, and one holds a degree and the other does not then the person with the degree will most likely get it.  Unless they are asking for a lot more money than the other person :)



Unicorns ARE real - They are just fat, grey and called Rhinos

Akvod said:
mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
IDK, college is simply another way of automatically weeding out the prospective employees. Although it's an expensive way to prove work ethic O.o But what else are we going to do to prove it?

Tests?

Its a really crappy thing to require a $50,000 piece of paper to say you can, or cannot do something. It doesn't mean your very good at something - just that the college says you can.

The real test for any job would be to test the employee for a probationary period to see if they can do what they say they can.

For example, if your a web programmer, there are many tests you can take to prove the validity of your skills for sites like E-lance, and you get graded on your work to show prospective employers....That is a great way to do it.

Most local governments have a good way of doing it via civil service tests. They give you a test based on required skills for the job you are wanting. They grade all the prospective employees to see how well they did on the test, and take the top 5-15 candidates. Then they schedule interviews to see how legitimate they are with the potential job.

I mean, to me it's the same. Some arbitrary and unrelated test to measure how good you'll be at a job. I mean, what test can be truly measure your ability to do a job? It's ultimately job experience that teaches you.

Well, it depends on what kind of job we're talking about.

I never suggested an arbitrary or unrelated test. I never stated the kind of test either.

For example, when I got hired as a business analyst at the company I work for, I was requested to do a business analysis on the company's website as well as its monetization structure, and an analysis of a competing market.

I produced 2, 20-page reports. I got the job the next week.

That was the test they gave me. They used the test to show if I really knew what I needed to about business analysis and presentation, as they flew me to their company HQ for the presentation.

In many job scenarios, I would imagine that similar tests would be very critical. For example, if you were in the IT field as a database manager, I would expect that a good test would be for them to give you a piece of SQL database, and ask you to generate reports based on their requests within a given amount of time.

For other scenarios that such tests may not be viable - such as a CEO - that is where your group of contacts works wonders. If people know you, your skills and abilities, they can reccomend you for jobs, as they can vouch for you meeting the criteria the job has demanded. Furthermore, that is why many 100k+ jobs require a few years' experience in a relevant field. If I keep up my work as an analyst, I could easily apply for a job somewhere else, and make 2-4 times as much money as I would have the or equivilent experience part of many job requirements....Despite the fact I lack any and all college courses in that field.

Yeah, but the test was essentially doing the job.

I'm talking about how we can possibly issue a test, for a job that isn't taught at a University. That was my point. There are some, no, many, that you have to learn how to do by gaining job experience before, and after you get the job.

Such as?

 

And do not mention trades, as they have apprenticeships for those types of jobs.

 



Unicorns ARE real - They are just fat, grey and called Rhinos

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If you think university is throwing four years of life away it must be a hell of a lot more boring over there than here =P

As for me, haven't finished study but will have a BE(Hons) which will be useful.



Tanstalas said:

Good points, however, if an employer is looking at two people with similar past job experiences, and one holds a degree and the other does not then the person with the degree will most likely get it.  Unless they are asking for a lot more money than the other person :)

Depends on the field. my field comes to mine (software development).

If two people have the same backgrounds, and one does not have a degree, it's very likely they are better at what they do, as there path to get to where they were was much harder.

If I was looking at people with 3 years experience, I would most likely take the guy with the degree. If it was 15, I would take the guy without it.



--whether you have earned a degree?
Yes

--what level of degree you have earned?
B. Sc.

--what field of study you earned your credentials in?
'Computing'

--whether or not you're currently employed in that same field of study?
Web Development is my current employment but I didn't study Web Development at Uni (wasn't a module, never understood why).

--whether your degree was required for you to attain said job (and I mean whether your specific degree was required, not if, say, a bachelor's degree in general was required)?
Not really, it only helped me get the interview.

--your country/region of origin, as this may showcase differences in the education system of one country vs another?
UK



Hmm, pie.

whether you have earned a degree Yes
what level of degree you have earned Bachelor's
what field of study you earned your credentials in Computer Science
whether or not you're currently employed in that same field of study Yes
whether your degree was required for you to attain said job (and I mean whether your specific degree was required, not if, say, a bachelor's degree in general was required) In my case, yes. Not everywhere, but if you don't have one then you need an impressive portfolio of work to make up for it.
your country/region of origin, as this may showcase differences in the education system of one country vs another USA

Has my degree been useful? Yes, though the classes I'm finding I use most are not the stereotypical courses one thinks of when going into CS. For example, CS1-CS4 have proven much less useful than a course I took called Programming Language Concepts, which trained me to pick up new programming languages ludicrously quickly.

And the course I use most of all wasn't even in my major, though I don't use it at work either. A massage/relaxation course is really useful when your Significant Other (as she was at the time; we're now married) has muscle and back problems.



Complexity is not depth. Machismo is not maturity. Obsession is not dedication. Tedium is not challenge. Support gaming: support the Wii.

Be the ultimate ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today! Poisson Village welcomes new players.

What do I hate about modern gaming? I hate tedium replacing challenge, complexity replacing depth, and domination replacing entertainment. I hate the outsourcing of mechanics to physics textbooks, art direction to photocopiers, and story to cheap Hollywood screenwriters. I hate the confusion of obsession with dedication, style with substance, new with gimmicky, old with obsolete, new with evolutionary, and old with time-tested.
There is much to hate about modern gaming. That is why I support the Wii.



•whether you have earned a degree

Yes.

•what level of degree you have earned

Master's

•what field of study you earned your credentials in

I've a Bachelor's degree in English and Master's in Education

•whether or not you're currently employed in that same field of study

No, I am not. I work for a school as an "aspiring" teacher, but I'm a minimum wage earning sucker ... a.k.a. teacher's assistant

•whether your degree was required for you to attain said job (and I mean whether your specific degree was required, not if, say, a bachelor's degree in general was required)

I think my job requires a pulse....

•your country/region of origin, as this may showcase differences in the education system of one country vs another


US friggin' A ...


-----------------------
College degrees, unless they are career oriented, get you absolutely nowhere in this country.
I had these aspirations, get my doctorate, become a professor/scholar, yada yada.


But the bureaucratic nature of our system of education is killing us, so I've changed my focus.



                          GETTIN' CHRONOCRUNK