By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - DF: The Playstation 3D details

I'll post the tidbits, but it's worth a read if you're curious about the juicy details of the technology, I won't be posting those

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-making-of-ps3-3d-article

...

The current-generation consoles mostly operate at 30FPS already, often with v-sync disengaging when frame-rate drops below that in order to retain the most crisp response and the most fluid visual experience. The Sony team advocates that the game should be v-synced at all times - a stiff challenge bearing in mind that two images need to be created.

...

This is a significant amount of additional computational work to add to a game. The impact on performance can be mitigated if the base engine itself is designed for 3D, but clearly all of the launch titles for the new range of displays are adapted from existed code. The question is, how did they do that? It's perhaps no mistake that two of the titles for the 3D launch originally ran with 1080p support, suggesting some pixel-processing overhead for the generation of two 720p images.

...

"The advantage there is that that's less than 1080p, so we're all right there pixel-count wise: we've got some to spare, we're asking less in terms of pixel processing. But we were fairly geometry bound on WipEout HD. Because it was 60Hz we could just drop to 30Hz and in actual fact, that was it. There was no more work to do. That worked. It took very little time getting the game into 3D; there were very few problems with WipEout."

...

Benson looks on the brighter side when addressing the advantages of what 3D brings to the table in the Studio Liverpool classic.

"Immersion: there's a better sense of being part of the world, and that goes for most titles converted to 3D," he says. "But also we found that understanding the flow of the track at distance was a very strong benefit. Often in 2D games you look into the distance and you haven't got enough detail to see where the track is going and 3D gives you that."

...

Moving onto the next major SCEE 3D conversion, MotorStorm: Pacific Rift, the performance challenge proved to be even steeper than with WipEout HD. The game already ran at the default 720p30, meaning no overhead in pixel-throughput and no compromises possible in the frame-rate. In our original coverage of the 3D reveal, our impression was that the Evolution Studios team had shifted to sub-HD in the manner Ian Bickerstaff suggested earlier on, with the hardware scaling making up the pixel quotient. It looks like we got it right, but the tinkering done was even more extensive.

"First of all we took our split-screen mode... effectively, 3D is very much like making a split-screen game," Benson reveals. "It's two views in one world, so let's just put the two cameras on the one player."

...

While MotorStorm in 3D may not have all of the visual finery of the traditional game, it turns out that some of the additional effects included in the game are disabled, simply because they are no longer needed.

"In the original game we varied field-of-view a lot to give speed cuing and acceleration cuing to the player," says Benson. "But in the 3D you don't really need that any more - you get it for free. 3D gives you that regardless. So we just made the field of view more natural."

...

"One interesting thing came through in the immersion aspect was that in the first-person camera view, it felt so much more like being there. Typically when most people play MotorStorm, something like 90 per cent play in the third-person view," Benson explains.

"As soon as we put the 3D settings in place, the first-person view became a lot more popular, a lot more people were using that view. This could indicate that 3D could perhaps change the standards, if you like."

...

It's interesting to note that the TriOviz 3D system we looked at in the new edition of Batman: Arkham Asylum uses a similar principle. In its final form, PlayStation 3D turns out to be far more standards-compliant than we speculated (it'll work on more than just Sony's own 3D sets), but the concept we suggested looks to be a core part of the future of stereoscopic 3D on the PlayStation 3, and a cheap/fast way to ensure a 3D experience without the technical compromises.

...

"At our studio we've been looking at doing this, with the left eye generated as normal and the right eye re-projected using the depth map. Basically it doesn't look too bad, it looks similar [to proper 3D]."

...

"Anything really subtle like transparency and reflections won't work with this approach, so what you need to do is combine it with existing 3D rendering techniques to use it properly," Bickerstaff suggests.

"Fortunately what you can do while you re-project your RGB values is that you can also re-project a new depth buffer as well and use that for your other rendering. We've been implementing it on the SPUs and found it takes around 3 per cent of total SPU time for a 1280x720 60Hz image. That isn't allowing for transfers between buffers and other things like that but it's not bad and certainly a big time-saver."

...

The experience with MotorStorm: Pacific Rift and WipEout HD suggests that while 3D gaming is very much possible on retrofitted games, the image quality or frame-rate deficiencies may prove disappointing for those looking for a truly cutting edge experience. Few developers may be willing to carry out wholesale optimisations as Housemarque did to get the best possible 3D version of its Super Stardust HD, and outside of Sony developers and publishers may not be quite so motivated to supporting 3D with as much R&D muscle as the platform holder.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So both Motorstorm and WipEout HD are 720p30, disappointing with WipEout, though I suppose retrofitting it with 720p60FPS in mind would have been harder than making a new stereoscopic 3D capable engine from the ground up by now.

And it's good to hear that Sony are going to make it easier to implement 3D with the depth buffer, I wonder what results they'll be able to produce with it. Going by the info here and Batman: Arkham Asylum GoTY, the effect could work well without making huge sacrifices in the graphics.



Around the Network

Interesting how people suddenly wanted to play Motorstorm in 1st person rather than 3rd when the 3D kicked in.  It all sounds fairly promising; even Batman AA 3D is a bit of an attraction, implementation will only get better in some future game releases.  I especially think Sony will be doing more download-only games geared to 3D performance, ala Stardust and WipEout.



I think that was a really interesting observation as well, it certainly shows that the effect is noticable and makes a difference. I hope we'll see some titles developed for 3D from the ground up before too long, hopefully with an engine built for it, so the hit on graphics won't be as hard as the games we've seen retrofitted here.



This is what I expected to happen. Older games that run 1080p or 60 FPS will be able to be converted to 3D easily...by halving the res/frame rate.

Newer games that are built from the ground up should have a better shot of working the same in 2D and 3D...

In other news, it doesn't look like PS3 will support the checkerboard pattern 3D TVs at all. Cause checkerboard DLP TVs need to get a full 1080p signal and then they cut make a checkerboard pattern with 720p each.
If a 720p signal is being fed to a checkerbaord tv, one of 2 things happens...

1. 3D looks whack and doesn't work.
2. picture shrunk by 1/2 and is displayed int he center of the screen.

Tis a shame...



I guess I don't need to get really excited about until next generation.



 

Tired of big government?
Want liberty in your lifetime?
Join us @
http://www.freestateproject.org

Around the Network

@ FreeTalkLive

It will be limited, so you shouldn't expect something like a revolution this console generation at least



Rainbird said:
@ FreeTalkLive

It will be limited, so you shouldn't expect something like a revolution this console generation at least


I think if one wants a revolution Nvidia 3D vision is the way to go.

Its bloody expensive though.

My perfect 3D set up would be:

Acer GD235HZ monitor X 3 = 400 x 3 = 1200 bucks

GTX480 SLI video card x2 = 1000 bucks

Nvidia 3d vision pack + extra glasses = 400 bucks

This is something everyone should be hyped for...if they have the money!! It will give you this...



disolitude: but the PS3 can send its 'version' of 3d signal to those TVs, which will be displayed by the TVs, right?  You are just saying that the PS3 won't send as good a signal as those TVs are capable of receiving/displaying?  Just checking.



Loud_Hot_White_Box said:

disolitude: but the PS3 can send its 'version' of 3d signal to those TVs, which will be displayed by the TVs, right?  You are just saying that the PS3 won't send as good a signal as those TVs are capable of receiving/displaying?  Just checking.

Yeah...Ps3 TV sends out what it sends and by the sounds of this article it will send out a 720p signal for Wipeout HD. this doesn't work for 3D checkerboard TVs.

The tvs' that use the checkerbaord patters (2007, 2008 Samsungs DLPs, and 2007, 2008, 2009 2010 Mitsubishi DLP TVs) requre a 1080p signal to show 3D on full screen. If a 720p signal is sent the picture becomes 1/2 of the screen, centered in the middle. Or if you try to stretch the picture the picture and 3D effect goes out of whack and its useless.

There is still lots of speculation ad we don't even know if the PS3 3D driver will be able to resolve the checkerbard pattern. Here is an explanation what checkerbard 3D effect is... http://cb.nowan.net/images/dlp3d_small.jpg

If PS3 is able to resolve checkerbard and take the wipeout HD 1080p signal and split it in to 720p per eye, in checkerboard pattern... this will still work for those TVs. Looks doubtful though...as even Nvidia 3d vision doesn't have a driver that is that robust. they do all their checkerboard processing after the rendering is done.



disolitude said:
Loud_Hot_White_Box said:

disolitude: but the PS3 can send its 'version' of 3d signal to those TVs, which will be displayed by the TVs, right?  You are just saying that the PS3 won't send as good a signal as those TVs are capable of receiving/displaying?  Just checking.

Yeah...Ps3 TV sends out what it sends and by the sounds of this article it will send out a 720p signal for Wipeout HD. this doesn't work for 3D checkerboard TVs.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that you can force the PS3 to output in 1080p. Sure it is only an upscalling, but wouldn't that work on a 3D DLP TV?




If you drop a PS3 right on top of a Wii, it would definitely defeat it. Not so sure about the Xbox360. - mancandy
In the past we played games. In the future we watch games. - Forest-Spirit
11/03/09 Desposit: Mod Bribery (RolStoppable)  vg$ 500.00
06/03/09 Purchase: Moderator Privilege  vg$ -50,000.00

Nordlead Jr. Photo/Video Gallery!!! (Video Added 4/19/10)