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Forums - Gaming - Why does game storytelling have such low standards? [MGS4, HL2, etc.]

contestgamer on 20 April 2010
richardhutnik said:
thelifatree said:
Xxain said:
contestgamer said:
Xxain said:
contestgamer said:
Storytelling >>> Gameplay.

Gameplay is probably more important to children, but when you grow up to being an adult you begin searching for meaning and thoughtful dialogue in the world around you. Playing mindless games just doesn't cut it anymore if you are intellectually minded. Having a deep, involving story and gameplay that conforms TO the story is what will make video games an accepted art form among adults, like literature, film etc is.

Why waste my precious time and intellect on games like Gears when I can play MGS1,2,3,4 or Braid or Xenogears and Planescape torment and really learn about myself and the world and become a more complete, open minded, intelligent and better person for it?

Then watch a movie or read a book? why would somebody who wants story choose Video "GAMES" for telling stories over other forms of media that do it better?... this genuinely honest question that bugs the hell outta me.

The word "video games" is outdated imo, "interactive entertainment" is more accurate today and sounds more respectable as well. That includes interactive film, or any media that is at least slightly interactive like Heavy Rain.

naaah... There still Video Games, your just dressing it up because by your previous post I can possibly assume you feel Video Games kiddy, and your " Interactive entertainment" the grown up Video Games.... and you didnt answer my question, mind you im genuinely interested because the story >>> gameplay crowd is shocking and backwards to me

Because to me and others. It's more interesting to understand the world and your charcters and their motivations. Because then it makes the gameplay more meaningful. The story and surrounding enhance the gameplay, and if the gameplay is already awesome, then you have a godlike creation. Because theres an illusion of purpose

rather than pew pew the bad guy or whatever

Ok, then it is important to understand what is NORMALLY a game.  In a game, you are YOURSELF.  You bring your own motives to a game world a designer created, and you end up doing what you want, and trying to accomplish things by your goals.  You are in control.  That is the heard of a game, and why there are issues when combining this, with what you are requesting, which is a story, where someone else is the character you follow.  I will say, because they are GAMES, they first and foremost need to be able to play well, and be FUN.  Games are meant to be FUN first and foremost.  Secondarily, they can serve other purposes, but I personally play a game to have fun.  I do use other storytelling medium for fun and other purposes.

 

God I hate it when people say games need to be "fun"...That's such a juvenile statement. I suppose all films, books and other art needs to be fun as well? Just because something is interactive doesn't mean it needs to be fun. This is why I think the word "video game" is short changing the potential of this industry. Interactive Entertainment would expand it greatly so we don't get close minded statements like yours all the time.



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richardhutnik on 20 April 2010
contestgamer said:
richardhutnik said:
thelifatree said:
Xxain said:
contestgamer said:
Xxain said:
contestgamer said:
Storytelling >>> Gameplay.

Gameplay is probably more important to children, but when you grow up to being an adult you begin searching for meaning and thoughtful dialogue in the world around you. Playing mindless games just doesn't cut it anymore if you are intellectually minded. Having a deep, involving story and gameplay that conforms TO the story is what will make video games an accepted art form among adults, like literature, film etc is.

Why waste my precious time and intellect on games like Gears when I can play MGS1,2,3,4 or Braid or Xenogears and Planescape torment and really learn about myself and the world and become a more complete, open minded, intelligent and better person for it?

Then watch a movie or read a book? why would somebody who wants story choose Video "GAMES" for telling stories over other forms of media that do it better?... this genuinely honest question that bugs the hell outta me.

The word "video games" is outdated imo, "interactive entertainment" is more accurate today and sounds more respectable as well. That includes interactive film, or any media that is at least slightly interactive like Heavy Rain.

naaah... There still Video Games, your just dressing it up because by your previous post I can possibly assume you feel Video Games kiddy, and your " Interactive entertainment" the grown up Video Games.... and you didnt answer my question, mind you im genuinely interested because the story >>> gameplay crowd is shocking and backwards to me

Because to me and others. It's more interesting to understand the world and your charcters and their motivations. Because then it makes the gameplay more meaningful. The story and surrounding enhance the gameplay, and if the gameplay is already awesome, then you have a godlike creation. Because theres an illusion of purpose

rather than pew pew the bad guy or whatever

Ok, then it is important to understand what is NORMALLY a game.  In a game, you are YOURSELF.  You bring your own motives to a game world a designer created, and you end up doing what you want, and trying to accomplish things by your goals.  You are in control.  That is the heard of a game, and why there are issues when combining this, with what you are requesting, which is a story, where someone else is the character you follow.  I will say, because they are GAMES, they first and foremost need to be able to play well, and be FUN.  Games are meant to be FUN first and foremost.  Secondarily, they can serve other purposes, but I personally play a game to have fun.  I do use other storytelling medium for fun and other purposes.

 

God I hate it when people say games need to be "fun"...That's such a juvenile statement. I suppose all films, books and other art needs to be fun as well? Just because something is interactive doesn't mean it needs to be fun. This is why I think the word "video game" is short changing the potential of this industry. Interactive Entertainment would expand it greatly so we don't get close minded statements like yours all the time.

You hate that people say that a form of Interactive ENTERTAINMENT is supposed to be FUN?  So, by your definition, a form of entertainment is NOT supposed to be fun?  I don't know if anyone here argues that a form of entertainment can't be more than just fun, but I explain how exactly a form of entertainment is entertainment if it is not fun (aka boring).

And yes, I do say that games first and foremost need to be fun, I meant that.  I do say that games can benefit IF they offer more.  The category of "edutainment" would fit into this, but for it to work, the game has to be fun, engaging and captivating to make you want to keep playing.  Fun can take many forms from surprise/novelty, to humor, to escaping fear, to drama, to personal satisfaction in accomplishing personal goals or developing.

Beyond this, I think they happen to try to shove way too much into the category of "videogames" and I see people getting confused and actually coming out and saying games "MUST" have stories, which is false.  Games CAN have stories, but they don't need them. 



Kenryoku_Maxis on 20 April 2010

Games do not have a low standard for story-telling. You could say the same thing about many movies or even books, but the fact is many people put their hearts into writing for those mediums, as well as games.

The problem is games are completely different than movies or books to write for. Its one thing to write a 2 hour screenplay and make it into a movie. Its a whole other thing to write a 2 hour screenplay...and have to stretch that out to 30-60 hours, breaking up the time with gameplay, awkward cutscenes and knowing people are going to wander around exploring outside the boundaries of your story.

Having said all that, I still don't think there has been a story in a game that has been as impacting or well developed as some of the better stories in movies, television or print media. And I don't think the examples I presented are keeping the stories down. In fact, just the opposite should be the case. We should be seeing stories becoming even better BECAUSE they involve the player, exploration and direct interaction with the game world. How many people do you know who think stories in games such as Zelda, Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid are the 'best ever'? I'm willing to wager the majority of that comes from their enjoyment of playing the game itself and the actual meat of the 'story' is just an afterthought. Yet they identify with the story because once they're done playing the game, its what they can look back on.

What a game designer needs to do is develop a story that makes the player feel they are actually interacting and uncovering the story through their own actions, while actually having the story be something well written along the same level of some of the better books, movies and TV series out there.



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

contestgamer on 21 April 2010
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Games do not have a low standard for story-telling. You could say the same thing about many movies or even books, but the fact is many people put their hearts into writing for those mediums, as well as games.

The problem is games are completely different than movies or books to write for. Its one thing to write a 2 hour screenplay and make it into a movie. Its a whole other thing to write a 2 hour screenplay...and have to stretch that out to 30-60 hours, breaking up the time with gameplay, awkward cutscenes and knowing people are going to wander around exploring outside the boundaries of your story.

Having said all that, I still don't think there has been a story in a game that has been as impacting or well developed as some of the better stories in movies, television or print media. And I don't think the examples I presented are keeping the stories down. In fact, just the opposite should be the case. We should be seeing stories becoming even better BECAUSE they involve the player, exploration and direct interaction with the game world. How many people do you know who think stories in games such as Zelda, Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid are the 'best ever'? I'm willing to wager the majority of that comes from their enjoyment of playing the game itself and the actual meat of the 'story' is just an afterthought. Yet they identify with the story because once they're done playing the game, its what they can look back on.

What a game designer needs to do is develop a story that makes the player feel they are actually interacting and uncovering the story through their own actions, while actually having the story be something well written along the same level of some of the better books, movies and TV series out there.

 

I disagree man and I'm sure many others would to...I can hardly wait to rip through the gameplay sections of MGS games to reach another cutscene with juicy story parts. I complined numerous times about the fact that you can skip cutscenes but you can't skip gameplay sections (wtf?). Gameplay is more of a chore you have to work through that makes the rewarding cutscenes all the more sweeter.



Kenryoku_Maxis on 21 April 2010
contestgamer said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Games do not have a low standard for story-telling. You could say the same thing about many movies or even books, but the fact is many people put their hearts into writing for those mediums, as well as games.

The problem is games are completely different than movies or books to write for. Its one thing to write a 2 hour screenplay and make it into a movie. Its a whole other thing to write a 2 hour screenplay...and have to stretch that out to 30-60 hours, breaking up the time with gameplay, awkward cutscenes and knowing people are going to wander around exploring outside the boundaries of your story.

Having said all that, I still don't think there has been a story in a game that has been as impacting or well developed as some of the better stories in movies, television or print media. And I don't think the examples I presented are keeping the stories down. In fact, just the opposite should be the case. We should be seeing stories becoming even better BECAUSE they involve the player, exploration and direct interaction with the game world. How many people do you know who think stories in games such as Zelda, Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid are the 'best ever'? I'm willing to wager the majority of that comes from their enjoyment of playing the game itself and the actual meat of the 'story' is just an afterthought. Yet they identify with the story because once they're done playing the game, its what they can look back on.

What a game designer needs to do is develop a story that makes the player feel they are actually interacting and uncovering the story through their own actions, while actually having the story be something well written along the same level of some of the better books, movies and TV series out there.

 

I disagree man and I'm sure many others would to...I can hardly wait to rip through the gameplay sections of MGS games to reach another cutscene with juicy story parts. I complined numerous times about the fact that you can skip cutscenes but you can't skip gameplay sections (wtf?). Gameplay is more of a chore you have to work through that makes the rewarding cutscenes all the more sweeter.

Well, I'm sure you've heard this before, but since you're playing a game, that's why you can't skip those major gameplay areas.  Perhaps you should look for an arrangement of all the scenes from a perticular MGS game and just watch them, instead of playing the actual game.  Trust me, they exist.  Heck, the people who made Xenogears and Final Fantasy even released DVDs of just the key scenes and FMVs collected into a movie.  I'm sure you can find the same thing for MGS.



Six upcoming games you should look into: