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Forums - General - Ron Paul Vs Obama

Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
Mr Khan said:

the main problem is that they would be playing with fire either way. A movement with strong motivation is invaluable, but a movement that goes too far is immediately going to turn off that undecided median that always decides the elections anyway. There are elements in the tea party (not the whole one, but the louder elements) that could demonize the whole movement

 

This phenomenon has happened before. Women's Lib back in the 60's lost momentum because certain elements were too extreme, which is also what decimated the anti-war movement around the same time as an effective political force, and what knocked the steam out of the KKK as the mainstream political organ it had almost become in the 20's

On the other hand, the anti-war left behaved itself atrociously during the Bush years, but the Republicans fucked themselves so hard, there was no chance the Democrats weren't going to wipe the floor with them. I see a similar arrogance among the Democrats today as among the Republicans then.

The only possible difference is that the media did the anti-war movement a tremendous service by not focusing on the crazies brandishing heinous signs at their rallies and by sanitizing Cindy Sheehan for public consumption. When it comes to the tea party, the majority of the media doesn't like them one bit and isn't even going to bother with the pretense of fairness. Violent anti-WTO protests get better press than these people who, to my knowledge, haven't lifted a finger against anyone as yet, even as their detractors openly fantasize about committing acts of violence against them.

I would say the more visible coverage they've been getting has been from sympathetic media outlets, FOX and Glenn Beck and all.

Which is... you know, largely pointless when every other news channel that other people are watching are bashing them.  I don't know how that can't be seen as an issue.  Afterall if only Fox news takes something seriously, most people aren't.



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Mr Khan said:

I would say the more visible coverage they've been getting has been from sympathetic media outlets, FOX and Glenn Beck and all.

Probably. Sparse and snide is a pretty good description of most of the media's coverage.



I was listening to BBC radio on my way home the other day (I have XM), and they were interviewing three people from the tea party at the rally in DC.

All three of them had very good points they brought up, and every one of them had an issue to talk about. You would have never seen that interview on mainstream media here in the US. They would have found the few people out of the thousands with misspelled signs, or yelling crap at people, and put that on the news.

The reason the Tea Party is going to be a real force in my opinion, is it's a party of only issues. If you were to go to one, and ask everyone why they were there, you would hear about taxes, or healthcare, or spending, or the war, or any number of other issues.

Almost no one would mention Obama, or the democrats, or the republicans. It's not about hate for a man or a party. It's about the issues. And when your fighting against someone who just wants to talk about the issus, it's very hard to win, if your not right. A smile and a good speech writer is not going to do it.



HappySqurriel said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Ron Paul is a very healthy man. Being a doctor helps :)

But his biggest problem getting elected, has little to do with age. The problem, is he makes the right calls. The right calls are political suicide.

Yes, the National Education System sucks, and the best way to help our kids learn, is to get rid of it, but for the masses that just sounds like crazy talk.

I wouldn’t say that he always makes the right calls because (at times) I believe his suggestions end up being a little too extreme; and it is likely that they would resolve existing problems by introducing new problems. 

The right answer would make more problems. That's because it's the right answer, and not the easy answer.

For example, if someone had gone to John Adams when he was president, and said "We have hundreds in Georgia going hungry", he would have been extremely upset. He most likely would have done something as an American to try and help. But it would not of even entered his mind that the federal government should come to the aid of these people.

It was never the federal governments job to make sure you eat. It still shouldn't be. That's the right answer.



HappySqurriel said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Ron Paul is a very healthy man. Being a doctor helps :)

But his biggest problem getting elected, has little to do with age. The problem, is he makes the right calls. The right calls are political suicide.

Yes, the National Education System sucks, and the best way to help our kids learn, is to get rid of it, but for the masses that just sounds like crazy talk.

I wouldn’t say that he always makes the right calls because (at times) I believe his suggestions end up being a little too extreme; and it is likely that they would resolve existing problems by introducing new problems. With that said, I think Ron Paul is a smart enough person to understand the political and practical problems with governing from an ideological standpoint; and even if he did, the US has moved to such a centralized-authoritarian extreme that it would take 4 or 8 terms to really get into a position where it could cause problems.

Anyways, I personally don’t expect many of the talked about candidates to actually enter into or win the primaries; and the political power they’re building today will most likely be used to frame the debate of the next presidential election. While I don’t think that it is (necessarily) a great comparison, I think that people like Sarah Palin and Ron Paul are going to position themselves as ‘King Makers’ as are often seen in parliamentary systems; essentially people who campaign and (often) run for leadership with little opportunity to win in exchange for determining policy directions and powerful positions in the government.


I believe people think his suggestions are a little too "extreme" or "radical" because there really hasn't been a politician for a long time who was willing to make the right decisions to benefit there nation due to being puppets controlled by the banking elite. Ending the fed and having the money printed through the nation treasury, bring home troops from iraq and afghanistan day, shutting down the IRS and Homeland security, which are a few of his considered radical view points, in my opinion would benefit the U.S more than hurt it.



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

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Hey, I got a name for you for someone that, if he does the right thing may have a good shot at doing some good in the nation.

Chris Christie. The more I read about what he's doing, the more I like him.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

A third party would actually hurt the Republicans since they need all the independents to beat Obama. It's going to be hard to beat him, I haven't seen anyone yet that can can stand up to him.



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11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
psrock said:
A third party would actually hurt the Republicans since they need all the independents to beat Obama. It's going to be hard to beat him, I haven't seen anyone yet that can can stand up to him.

He really is the George Bush of the Democratic party.  Wildly plummeting in the polls... should be easy to take out... but you've got nobody that can run that can beat him.

My guess is the only shot a Republican would have would be to ironically pull an Obama and put up Scott Brown.



Kasz216 said:
psrock said:
A third party would actually hurt the Republicans since they need all the independents to beat Obama. It's going to be hard to beat him, I haven't seen anyone yet that can can stand up to him.

He really is the George Bush of the Democratic party.  Wildly plummeting in the polls... should be easy to take out... but you've got nobody that can run that can beat him.

My guess is the only shot a Republican would have would be to ironically pull an Obama and put up Scott Brown.

I would have bet a million dollars that GW would have lost in 2004, his polls were terrible, but once time came to vote, people vote like they do in American IDOL.

The Republican needs a Star that is not FROM Alaska,,and they need to start hyping him/her now. I have feeling the worst has passed for Obama, he will not rest, the man knows how to campaingn and whoever goes against him better be clean, smart and can hold the national attention.



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11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
TheRealMafoo said:

I was listening to BBC radio on my way home the other day (I have XM), and they were interviewing three people from the tea party at the rally in DC.

All three of them had very good points they brought up, and every one of them had an issue to talk about. You would have never seen that interview on mainstream media here in the US. They would have found the few people out of the thousands with misspelled signs, or yelling crap at people, and put that on the news.

The reason the Tea Party is going to be a real force in my opinion, is it's a party of only issues. If you were to go to one, and ask everyone why they were there, you would hear about taxes, or healthcare, or spending, or the war, or any number of other issues.

Almost no one would mention Obama, or the democrats, or the republicans. It's not about hate for a man or a party. It's about the issues. And when your fighting against someone who just wants to talk about the issus, it's very hard to win, if your not right. A smile and a good speech writer is not going to do it.

Jon Stewart actually had a large bit about that on his show thursday. His usual long montage of media outlets all asking about if they've gotten violent yet, are the crazies coming out, and random video of whatever idiot they can find spouting gibberish. Then he had his "senior teaparty analyst" complaining that nobody has called him a nigger yet, and he doesn't have time to ask them about the issues because as soon as he does some other network will scoop him on a guy dressed as hitler shitting into his own hand.

 

Fox news of course has latched onto this, but only to create their own hypocritical narrative (which jon stewart also called them out on, he's really not a political satirist he's a media satirist). Fox news is sympathetic to the tea party movement but only because they want to paint it as the enemy of democrats and liberals, still obfuscating  the facts to create their own narrative failing to show how most of the movement also hates the republicans. The media doesn't cover stories, it manufactures them. It's alot more profitable that way.



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