Perhaps some good ol' revolutions in PROC and Iran might keep us busy for a few days.
nightsurge said:
The Swine Flu itself occured back in the 1980's I believe (may have been 70's) to the same government and media enduced panic. It had a very low death rate, and the result of the vaccine was that many people were permanently damaged/handicapped by adverse affects or even killed by the vaccine. As many as 30,000 people. |
I think you will find that it was a pandemic, in fact here is the press release from the WHO stating that it was upgraded to pandemic. In fact it was a level 6 pandemic, the highest level of risk a pandemic can reach.
There is no natural immunity to Swine flu in humans, if you come into contact with it, it is very likely you will get infected (in other words it spreads like wild fire, so you certainly don't want it to mutate otherwise you are looking at a death toll well in to the tens of millions).
Let me use a (quasi) analogy. It is like when Spanish explorers travelled to south America and disease suddenly killed most of the natives. The reason was that the Spanish had introduced European diseases that the natives had never encountered before and so they had no natural immunity. What was a harmless disease to the Spanish wiped out whole civilisations because their immune system weren't capable of handling the new disease and so it spread like wild fire throughout them.
Swine flu is just the same, except the whole Earth doesn't have a natural immunity. If swine flu mutated so it could kill people then we would be looking at a death toll the like have never been seen before. You can understand why governments wanted to try and prevent this.
Now you know I'm the first person to call out media hype, and yes swine flu was used by the media to sell papers. However, the threat from Swine flu was very real, even when you discount media hype.
I refer you to the video I posted.
| Rath said: nightsurge. It was a pandemic (look up the definition), the '76 vaccine didn't kill a huge number of people and our immune systems are getting weaker over time (due to increased sterilisation). |
http://healthandsurvival.com/2009/04/26/swine-flu-vaccine-of-1976-more-harm-than-good/
“The government wanted everyone to get vaccinated,” Ward said. “But the epidemic never really broke out. It was a threat that never materialized.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31971355/
"The last time the government embarked on a major vaccine campaign against a new swine flu, thousands filed claims contending they suffered side effects from the shots."
The sad thing is that now the government protects vaccine producers from lawsuit should their vaccine cripple a person or even kill them. Good old government, can't get out of the largest industries' pockets (or is it the other way around?
).
I just googled 'What's going to destroy humanity?' into google images and this came up:
So I'm guessing were gonna be overrun by little mexican mice.
Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.
nightsurge said:
http://healthandsurvival.com/2009/04/26/swine-flu-vaccine-of-1976-more-harm-than-good/ “The government wanted everyone to get vaccinated,” Ward said. “But the epidemic never really broke out. It was a threat that never materialized.” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31971355/ "The last time the government embarked on a major vaccine campaign against a new swine flu, thousands filed claims contending they suffered side effects from the shots." The sad thing is that now the government protects vaccine producers from lawsuit should their vaccine cripple a person or even kill them. Good old government, can't get out of the largest industries' pockets (or is it the other way around? |
There is no evidence that the vaccine did much harm at all. There is a very slight link to Guillain-Barré Syndrome but with numbers in the hundreds, not the tens of thousands like you make out. Thousands filing claims doesn't make it a fact, a thousand people could claim they were molested by Barack Obama, doesn't mean Obama is a sexual predator (how on earth did I come up with that analogy?)

Look, I'm not saying that there was absolutely no threat. Obviously there was a threat of mutation and a high death rate, but the government and media painted it as a certainty. Even after overwhelming evidence came out to support that really only the people who are succeptible to normal flu complications were the ones experiencing issues with Swine Flu, they pressed on insisting we get vaccinated when there really wasn't much need. Now if it mutated to be much more violent, then a vaccine would be needed, but it would likely need to be a much different vaccine and the current one would not do much good anyway.
Also, I just don't see how 30,000 cases WORLDWIDE can be classed as an "epidemic over a wide geographic area and affecting a large proportion of the population". Sure it is over a wide area, but 30,000 at the time of that Pandemic labeling is less than .0004% of the population, not a large portion at all. There were only 2000 deaths in the USA since this "pandemic" due to combinations of all the flu's. That's less than .0008% of the US population. Of those, Swine Flu was only accountable for 279 deaths, so that's less than .00008% of the population.
Just to add something to this topic:
Diseases have always been the #1 killer of humanity(since agriculture). Blame it on the people who invented agriculture.
| nightsurge said: Look, I'm not saying that there was absolutely no threat. Obviously there was a threat of mutation and a high death rate, but the government and media painted it as a certainty. Even after overwhelming evidence came out to support that really only the people who are succeptible to normal flu complications were the ones experiencing issues with Swine Flu, they pressed on insisting we get vaccinated when there really wasn't much need. Now if it mutated to be much more violent, then a vaccine would be needed, but it would likely need to be a much different vaccine and the current one would not do much good anyway. Also, I just don't see how 30,000 cases WORLDWIDE can be classed as an "epidemic over a wide geographic area and affecting a large proportion of the population". Sure it is over a wide area, but 30,000 at the time of that Pandemic labeling is less than .0004% of the population, not a large portion at all. There were only 2000 deaths in the USA since this "pandemic" due to combinations of all the flu's. That's only .008% of the US population. |
30,000 cases? Where on Earth did you get that BS figure? The WHO seem to think the figure is 600,000+ (source), and these are the people who know. And as established, diseases that we have no natural immunity increases exponentially. This means that one month it can be 600,000, the next month it could be a billion under the right conditions.
Also, are you not listening to what we are saying about deaths? We are not saying that the flu will kill you, but we are saying it spreads like wildfire, much much faster than a regular flu because we have no natural immunity. If it mutated (which viruses like to do, a lot) to a virus that could kill, then the new deadly virus will claim millions upon millions of lives. (So you can't use current death figures, they are unimportant; what is important is the infection rate)
Even if the chances of this happening are low, the damage would be extremely high should it happen.
Also, vaccines work. You had to go all the way back to the Guillain-barre sydrome from 1976 vaccines to find a case where they didn't work in a significant way. The latest vaccines worked, the problems in 1976 are not really an issue in the latest pandemic vaccines. I quote...
"There has been in particular a lot of concern about Guillain-Barre syndrome because of the incidences during the swine flu vaccination campaigns in 1976 in the US. To date, less than a dozen suspected cases of Guillain-Barre have been reported following vaccination. Only a few of these Guillain-Barre cases may be linked to the pandemic vaccine. Illness has been transient and patients have recovered."
Dr Marie-Paule Kieny, Director, Initiative for Vaccine Research Source
Actually the damages wouldn't be extremely high. There have been a lot of pandemic outbreaks were millions of people died, but there's almost no example in history were diseases killed of an entire race. The only thing that comes to mind at the moment are the Inca's and the Aztecs, but even they didn't completely die off.
Birth rate is so high in some places that it could easily buffer against 100million dead people.
| Samus Aran said: Actually the damages wouldn't be extremely high. There have been a lot of pandemic outbreaks were millions of people died, but there's almost no example in history were diseases killed of an entire race. The only thing that comes to mind at the moment are the Inca's and the Aztecs, but even they didn't completely die off. Birth rate is so high in some places that it could easily buffer against 100million dead people. |
Bubonic Plague absolutley ravaged Europe, killed over half the population. I don't know a huge amount about it but it seems likely some ethnic groups would have been eradicated by that.
