Note for those who haven't played CS/UT, just insert any old game that's decried as easy instead of CS and any 'hard' game instead of UT. Brawl with items on is considered 'easy' brawl without is considered hardcore and hard.

Basically, the argument used to show that CS and Mario Kart are easy is that Due to things like the noob cannon (autoshotgun) in cs and bullets in mario kart, it makes it easy for bad players to beat better players, thus they are easier.

This makes sense right?

...

No, this is extremely specious reasoning. A game like UT, it is very hard for a noob to beat a pro, or in other words, it's very easy to get to the skill level where you can do awesomely. 

In a game like mario kart, you can get to the stage where your chances against a noob, or even an average player are as high as in UT (if you get a bit ahead in Mario Kart, you can avoid the shitfights and the shell throwing and just treat it like a timetrial, the only thing that slows you down but doesnt slow second is blue shells, but you just need to be good enough to get a lead so this doesnt matter

The truth of the matter is, Mario Kart, just like CS and Brawl with items are all easy to learn, hard to master. Games that are usually considered hard are infact hard to learn, easy to master

My head hurts... what games are you talking about?

GT
MK

but CS? (counter strike?)
and UT? (Unreal Tournament?)

don't see the resemblance..

also.. with GT if you spin out at a corner.. anyone other then a newb should be able to pick up the head position and stay in there for the rest of the race..

Who in their right mind would argue that UT takes more skill than CS? CliffyB has already killed all his PC cool guy cred, anyway.

I'd vote for Mario Kart on the 2nd one. Not for any real reason, I just like Mario Kart better.

Sorry, I did say not to get too hung up on the specifics of the games

CS is counter strike, UT is unreal tournament as youg guessed. I mentioned those because in the past few days I have seen the line that quake/ut are harder than CS a lot. Trying to be topical here :P

and if you take a corner badly in Mario Kart, anyone else who isn't a noob should be able to take first and stay in it. First can always get items to trail behind them faster than 2nd can get shells to shoot at them

No one will argue that a skilled Mario Kart player will always beat a newb, but that doesn't make it harder to master than GT. Maybe you should have worded your title differently.

Guess someone here never played Counter Strike. Stating shotgun as an anti-pro weapon is the biggest joke ever. If you are bad in counterstrike, I'll school you with a knife no matter what weapon you've got. If you've ever seen CS played on competetive level, with pro gamer owning public with 60-0 score rusing with just pistol giving heads here and there.

CS does have a steep learning curve, but if you are noob I guarantee you, you won't frag progamer ever.

Unreal Tournament was never considered harder than CS, Quake 3 is a different thing though. Still, the main dif. in CS is teamwork and cooperation aside from great aim, ability to read the game and quick thinking. Quake was more about quick reflex and memorizing map movement patterns.

Even remotely comparing CS to MarioKart is insulting.

And I will beat you in Mario Kart even if you get bullets, and if a smash ball appears right infront of you in Brawl I will still get it before you do. I think you slightly misinterpreted my post. Infact, I think you took from it exactly the opposite meaning from that it is written to convey.

you are just crazy.

no just no, though i grew up with mario kart 64 i played it soo much knew the maps by heart, 150cc was nothing.

the game was simple enough to allow this, GT never let me do that on S grade license due difference in engines and cars.

My main gripe is that you chose CS to prove your point. While that point may stand for someone (I disagree), you shouldn't have selected Counter Strike, because you obviously know nothing about it.

And to your point, easy games hard to master and hard games easy to master is BS, you just can't generalise like that. And the fact is that MarioKart can't be harder to master than Gran Turismo, your answer is that Gran Turismo players compete in real life racing where one mistake can make up for instant death, profesional race car drivers play Gran Turismo instead of MarioKart. Guess why?

There might be certain cases when your statement stand, but it's definately not that CS is easy to pick up and hard to master, and also that MarioKart is harder to master than GT. I won't comment on Brawl, as from my brief playing experience I've found that game super boring. But even though I seriously doubt, that Brawl is harder to master than all those fighting games played at pro Tournaments.

EDIT: I just wake up, so fuckloads of typo's.