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Forums - General - Collateral Murder

ameratsu said:
Sqrl said:

Yeah I have to say these guys are guilty of only one thing from this video - saying some pretty callous things about a very awful situation


I'll finish by saying I do actually think things like this should not be made public. The amount of damage, in terms of morale as well as propaganda, that the video can do is immense. With that said issues like this must be dealt with, and if they aren't handled properly in a discrete fashion sometimes a public airing is the only way.

 

I completely disagree with this point. Subduing this sort of thing and measures like preventing photography/coverage of fallen American soldiers returning home is simply an effort to make war look tactical and sterile when its absolutely not. Americans just as much as everyone else in the world should be aware of questionable events like this. Wikileaks is doing the public a service by releasing things like this.

Think of any terrorist incident in modern history. It is always brought to light, thoroughly investigated and details are often overwhelming. Failures on the part of the military that result in civilian deaths need to be investigated and disclosed like we expect in those circumstances. Covering it up only to have it spill over like this hurts the image of the US and completely undermines what the US is supposed to stand for.

For the record, my primary issue is with the way they're conducting themselves (complete callousness, like they're playing a video game honestly) and saying over the radio that the van was "picking up bodies and weapons" when they were trying to picking up a single wounded journalist. 

Well first, on images of fallen soldiers coming home, I think that is absolutely 100% the right of the family to decide what is and is not shown.  To me that is the only sane position to take.

Second, the effort isn't to make war look clean, because frankly nobody with a brain would believe that it is no matter what you tell/show them. 

As for having an investigation, absolutely!  I'm in no way saying sweep it under the rug and forget about.  I'm saying handle the issue discretely until absolute command of all possible facts is secured.  From there you decide how to move forward.  If that includes indicting the soldiers and/or the officers making the decisions, then so be it.  But those gruesome details still don't need to be made public and only relevant information should be relayed to involved parties (ie families are told someone is being tried for the death, and the accusations against them but not the specific blood details).  The only scenario where the actual evidence should be disseminated is when there is an attempt to sweep it under the rug.  Seeing that justice is done is the only thing I can accept as a reasonable justification for the damage done by making a video like this public.

I think we agree on their comments being reprehensible but as for them picking up a single journalist, I would point out you're using information you've obtained in hindsight.  The situation is that they have reported fire on US troops in the area, these men were standing in a group of armed men and appeared to be armed themselves.  Others came to retrieve them and there was no way for them to know their intentions were purely to aid, or that the man they were helping was not a combatant.  There was simply a ton of ambiguity, and judging their actions based on the advantage of additional information is simply unfair.

 



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inb4 the people that didn't see the AK-47's and RPG at 3:46........... fucking war, fucked up, but it's fucking war



hollywood85 said:
inb4 the people that didn't see the AK-47's and RPG at 3:46........... fucking war, fucked up, but it's fucking war

@bold,

Sorry, you're pretty late for that.



To Each Man, Responsibility

Were not saying there were no weapons, there very well could have been. However you do realize that there are a lot of contract military workers in Iraq and most reporters have body guards to protect them in dangerous areas. The very fact that the soldiers mistook camera's for guns puts everything else into question. I mean why the hell would insurgents be walking around in the open with guns?

Even if we say the first attack is justifiable only a disgusting human being could condone the second attack. The men in the mini-van had no guns on them what so ever and were helping a man bleeding to death on the street. If they were so worried the men in the mini-van were insurgents they could have simply tailed the car and transmitted the location to ground forces. Lets not forget the fact that the two children could easily be seen in the mini-van and if the soldiers hadn't been so trigger happy to kill unarmed civilians they may have actually seen them. Not to mention they rerouted the kids to a shitty local hospital so as to not appear like they were responsible for their injuries. We don't even know if the kids lived or died. What we saw was a war crime, plain and simple.



                                           

                      The definitive evidence that video games turn people into mass murderers

I just saw this, horrifying. The U.S. Military completely broke the rules of engagement:
-They didn't use minimal force necessary
-They murdered unarmed people
-They murdered rescuers (people trying to save others)
-They murdered downed people

I am now a fan of Wikileaks.org



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FUUUU-




This is pretty common thing you'd see in our news...
i hate it, and that photographic guy was very popular and liked on tv, he was always in the middle of the scene to talk about whats really happening, i guess thats why they targeted him.

are you sure those are RPGs or camera stands?.

even if that was true why did they kill the wounded and the ones with no weapons ?



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Severance said:

are you sure those are RPGs or camera stands?.

even if that was true why did they kill the wounded and the ones with no weapons ?

From the way he was enjoying him self am gonna go with "for fun"



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I'd have to watch it again, I saw plenty of camera equipment but I don't doubt some of them had weapons aswell.

However, the ease with which they gunned down so many people was certainly very disheartening to watch. Making fun of killing people is discusting.



do you think these people would be able to do their jobs if they were moping about having to kill people and hesitating when they should be firing. that shit can get them and their friends killed.
its a hard line of work and being soft only gets you dead.



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