its illegal to hack. isn't i a federal crime to hack any technology. don't talk sony doing illegal things. hacking is illegal.
and if ur that mad about it go buy a xb360 and u won't haft to worry about it.
I actually want to take time to mention something really quick. There has been mentioning that Sony has no right to modify your console. Console manufacturers act as if your "renting" their consoles even though you purchased it. Well here is the thing. Its how most technology is. Cell phones, your paying for the service attached, you are no allowed to modify the services yourself, but providers can. Same with Windows, Mac, and Linux (in some sense). Microsoft has blatantly said that your software license for Windows is renting your access to their services and updates.
Pretty much deal with it. Its how electronics is. If you can't handle it, become Amish.
| ssj12 said: I actually want to take time to mention something really quick. There has been mentioning that Sony has no right to modify your console. Console manufacturers act as if your "renting" their consoles even though you purchased it. Well here is the thing. Its how most technology is. Cell phones, your paying for the service attached, you are no allowed to modify the services yourself, but providers can. Same with Windows, Mac, and Linux (in some sense). Microsoft has blatantly said that your software license for Windows is renting your access to their services and updates. Pretty much deal with it. Its how electronics is. If you can't handle it, become Amish. |
It would appear Amazons legal team in Europe disagree with your analysis looking at the article above. Sony have instigated this move very rashly and I seriously doubt they've looked into all the legal ramifications for every territory they're pushing this on customers. I fully expect this is going to backfire in a huge way and other OS will be returning very very soon.
Just to highlight something by the way, the latest 360 update enabled the ability for banned users to install games to the HDD again. It is thought that the reason they have allowed the feature to be used again is that removing the feature which wasn't a integral part of the xbox live service was in all likelyhood illegal and hence they wanted to avoid a lawsuit. Sony might want to look at this themselves.
| ssj12 said: I actually want to take time to mention something really quick. There has been mentioning that Sony has no right to modify your console. Console manufacturers act as if your "renting" their consoles even though you purchased it. Well here is the thing. Its how most technology is. Cell phones, your paying for the service attached, you are no allowed to modify the services yourself, but providers can. Same with Windows, Mac, and Linux (in some sense). Microsoft has blatantly said that your software license for Windows is renting your access to their services and updates. Pretty much deal with it. Its how electronics is. If you can't handle it, become Amish. |
that's pretty close though it's more about the software on them, more than about the physical hardware.
a great example of this:
is both
windows OS and the Sony XMB are owned by their respective companies if they decide to remove a function out of each software in a future update the consumer as long as they are told before hand then they are covered, because the consumer has to decide if they want the update.
example:
window's XP did not come with service pack 2, and some software will not run without service pack 2, you had to update to service pack 2 in order for that software to run but also after that update some program's that did work before
example:
The following table lists programs that are known to experience a loss of functionality when they run on a Windows XP SP2-based computer.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/884130
this is the same as what Sony did with the XMB
you as the consumer do not own the XMB on your playstation 3 you are just granted a license to use it. the new update 3.21 removes Install Other OS because of security reason's. you than have to decide if you want to update the firmware or not.
windows XP did not come at first come with service pack 2.
when some people first had Windows XP.
so has there been a law suit over service pack 2?
I AM BOLO
100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...
ps:
Proud psOne/2/3/p owner. I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.
joeorc you need to do some actual reading on consumer rights (not just copy pasting definitions, but comprehending what you read). you do not have it right at least for the US and EU. Consumers do not have to choose between updates and loosing features. As shown by the first case already above. More will come out and retailers/sony will have to compensate people who bought ps3's to use linux and no longer can. EULA's/TOS's can not contract you out of your right to have what you purchased not taken away from you. This will be last I say, as from here on out we will start hearing about court cases and judges and lawyers will decide who is right in each country.
| thranx said: joeorc you need to do some actual reading on consumer rights (not just copy pasting definitions, but comprehending what you read). you do not have it right at least for the US and EU. Consumers do not have to choose between updates and loosing features. As shown by the first case already above. More will come out and retailers/sony will have to compensate people who bought ps3's to use linux and no longer can. EULA's/TOS's can not contract you out of your right to have what you purchased not taken away from you. This will be last I say, as from here on out we will start hearing about court cases and judges and lawyers will decide who is right in each country. |
when you buy a PC do you own the right's to the windows XP or window's 7 software?
that answer is NO!
you are granted a License to use it.!
that is the very same thing with the XMB, sony own's the XMB not the consumer.
did you not take the time to read about service pack 2 and the loss of some consumer's software functionality that worked just fine on service pack 1.
did Microsoft get a lawsuit over this?
that should tell you something.
just because Amazon gave someone a refund does not mean everyone will!
I AM BOLO
100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...
ps:
Proud psOne/2/3/p owner. I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.
joeorc said:
when you buy a PC do you own the right's to the windows XP or window's 7 software? that answer is NO! you are granted a License to use it.! that is the very same thing with the XMB, sony own's the XMB not the consumer. did you not take the time to read about service pack 2 and the loss of some consumer's software functionality that worked just fine on service pack 1. did Microsoft get a lawsuit over this? that should tell you something. just because Amazon gave someone a refund does not mean everyone will!
|
Stop being naive Joe, this is a very complex issue and it shows that at least in one companies legal team eyes, they have a case to answer. I'll take the word of a company like Amazon that there is a problem here over yourself who is more than likely not a lawyer well versed in consumer law, especially in the EU it would seem.
slowmo said:
Stop being naive Joe, this is a very complex issue and it shows that at least in one companies legal team eyes, they have a case to answer. I'll take the word of a company like Amazon that there is a problem here over yourself who is more than likely not a lawyer well versed in consumer law, especially in the EU it would seem. |
no it's not!:
the very fact that the consumer does not own the right's to the XMB!
page 4 of your Ps3 user manual. btw/ how many people read that thing anyway?
one of my buddies from when I was in the navy was a judge Advocate of the U.S. NAVY
he stated by what he has read going on right now and with this :
December 10, 2009
PLEASE READ THIS SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS.
ACCESS TO OR USE OF THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE IN THE SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT INC. ("SCE")'S PlayStation®3 COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM UNIT ("PS3™ system") IS EXPRESSLY CONDITIONED UPON ACCEPTANCE OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT.
This Agreement is a contract with SCE. This Agreement applies to any system software or firmware included in the PS3™ system, and any patches, updates, upgrades, or new versions of the system software or firmware provided to or made available for your PS3™ system through any SCE service or online network, SCE website or PS3™ system game disc (software is collectively, "System Software").
Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, all System Software is licensed to users solely for personal, non-commercial use on the PS3™ system in the country in which the PS3™ system was designed by SCE to operate. To the extent permitted by applicable law, your rights to use or access the current version of the System Software will cease upon installation of a newer version of the System Software onto your PS3™ system, whether such installation occurs through manual or automatic download by SCE through SCE's online network, or otherwise. SCE does not grant any license to System Software obtained by users in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods. Your use or access to open source software or freeware included with the System Software is subject to additional terms and conditions set forth in the instruction manual or documentation for the PS3™ system or at http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-license/index.html. Such additional terms are hereby incorporated by reference. You do not have any ownership rights or interests in the System Software. All intellectual property rights therein belong to SCE and its licensors, and all use or access to such System Software shall be subject to the terms of this Agreement and all applicable copyright and intellectual property laws. Except as expressly granted in this Agreement, SCE and its licensors reserve all rights, interests and remedies.
You may not lease, rent, sublicense, publish, modify, adapt, or translate any portion of the System Software. To the fullest extent permitted by law, you may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the System Software, or create any derivative works, or otherwise attempt to create System Software source code from its object code. You may not (i) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3™ system; (ii) violate any laws, regulations or statutes, or rights of SCE, its affiliated companies, or third parties in connection with your access to or use of the System Software, including the access, use, or distribution of any software or hardware that you know or should have known to be infringing or pirated; (iii) use any hardware or software to cause the System Software to accept or use unauthorized, illegal, or pirated software or hardware; (iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods; or (v) exploit the System Software in any manner other than to use it in your PS3™ system in accordance with the accompanying documentation and with authorized software or hardware, including use of the System Software to design, develop, update, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware for use in connection with the PS3™ system for any reason. Without limiting the scope of SCE's remedies, any violation of these restrictions will void the PS3™ system's warranty and affect your ability to obtain warranty services and repair services from SCE or its affiliated companies.
From time to time, SCE may provide updates, upgrades or services to your PS3™ system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines or provide you with new offerings. Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online, and others may be available to you through SCE's online network or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, new technology or revised settings and features which may prevent access to unauthorized or pirated content, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3™ system. Additionally, you may not be able to view your own content if it includes or displays content that is protected by authentication technology. Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up. Other services or content may be made available to you by third parties who may require you to accept their terms and conditions and privacy policy (“Third Party Agreement”). SCE may refer to or provide you with links to websites that third parties independently operate or maintain (“Linked Sites”). SCE and its affiliated companies do not control or direct Linked Sites, nor do SCE and its affiliated companies monitor, approve, endorse, warrant or sponsor any information, conclusions, recommendations, advertisement, products, services or content described on Linked Sites. You acknowledge and agree that SCE and its affiliated companies have no liability to you for the information on the Linked Sites. Your reliance on any such information is at your own risk, and you assume all responsibilities and consequences resulting from your reliance. Please see your user's manual for information on controlling access to Linked Sites via PS3™ system's parental control. Notwithstanding any provision of any terms and conditions, in the event of any conflict between this Agreement and the Third Party Agreement, this Agreement shall control as between you and SCE.
SCE may retrieve information about your hardware and software for authentication, copy protection, account blocking, system monitoring/diagnostics, rules enforcement, game management, marketing purposes, tracking user behavior and other purposes. The information collected is not your personally identifying information. SCE may use DNAS (Dynamic Network Authentication System), a proprietary system designed to authenticate game titles and the PS3™ system when you connect the PS3™ system to a network, to collect this information. Any unauthorized transfer, exhibition, export, import or transmission of programs and devices circumventing DNAS may be prohibited by law. SCE reserves the right to use any other authentication or security system, or method in connection with the PS3™ system. You can find more information on how SCE or its affiliated companies may use the collected information by referring to the privacy policy on the SCE company's website for your territory. The applicable privacy policy applies to your use of the PS3™ system.
Use of any feature that requires access to internet connection, including the PS3™ system's internet browser (“Internet Features”) is at your own risk. Internet Features may require wireless LAN access which may NOT be available at your location, free of charge, or free from interruption or disconnections. See your wireless LAN provider for details. Internet Features may NOT support all wireless LAN access connection points or Web sites. Browsing websites, or accessing any of the content may result in viruses, loss or corruption of data, or other problems. You must comply with all applicable laws and regulations. See other terms and conditions of use in the user's manuals. You are responsible for all fees in connection with access to or use of the internet.
The System Software and the contents, programs, services and websites on or provided through the System Software, including Internet Features and information on Linked Sites are provided "AS IS". SCE and its affiliated companies expressly disclaim any implied warranty of merchantability, warranty of fitness for a particular purpose and warranty of non-infringement. SCE AND ITS AFFILIATED COMPANIES EXCLUDE ALL LIABILITY FOR ANY LOSS OF DATA, LOSS OF PROFIT, OR ANY OTHER LOSS OR DAMAGE SUFFERED BY YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY, WHETHER DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL HOWEVER ARISING, AS A RESULT OF ACCESSING TO OR USING THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE OR ANY OF THE CONTENTS, PROGRAMS, FEATURES, SERVICES OR INFORMATION ON OR PROVIDED THROUGH THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE. SO LONG AS THIS PROVISION IS ENFORCEABLE IN YOUR JURISDICTION, THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS, EXCLUSIONS AND DISCLAIMERS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE.
If SCE determines that you have violated the terms of this Agreement, SCE may take all actions to protect its interests, including denial of any services such as warranty services and repair services provided for your PS3™ system and termination of your access to PlayStation®Network, implementation of upgrades or devices intended to discontinue unauthorized use, or reliance on any other remedial efforts as reasonably necessary to prevent the use of a modified PS3™ system, or any pirated material or equipment. SCE and its licensors reserve the right to bring legal action in the event of a violation of this Agreement. SCE reserves the right to participate in any government or private legal action or investigation relating to your conduct.
The PS3™ system may contain technology that is subject to certain restrictions under the export control laws and regulations of the United States, including but not limited to the Export Administration Regulations, and the embargo and sanctions regimes of the U.S. Department of Treasury, Office of Foreign Asset Controls. As such, the PS3™ system may not be exported or re-exported to persons and entities prohibited by such laws and regulations.
By using or accessing the System Software, you agree to be bound by all current terms of this Agreement. To access a printable, current copy of this Agreement, go to http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ on your personal computer. SCE, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time, including any terms in the PS3™ system documentation or manual, or at http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-license/index.html. Please check back on this website from time to time for changes to this Agreement. Your continued access to or use of the System Software will signify your acceptance of any changes to this Agreement. In the event of any conflict between this Agreement and the Terms of Service and User Agreement for SCE's online network, the terms of this Agreement shall control the use of or access to, the System Software.
©2009 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. All rights reserved
I AM BOLO
100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...
ps:
Proud psOne/2/3/p owner. I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.
| thranx said: joeorc you need to do some actual reading on consumer rights (not just copy pasting definitions, but comprehending what you read). you do not have it right at least for the US and EU. Consumers do not have to choose between updates and loosing features. As shown by the first case already above. More will come out and retailers/sony will have to compensate people who bought ps3's to use linux and no longer can. EULA's/TOS's can not contract you out of your right to have what you purchased not taken away from you. This will be last I say, as from here on out we will start hearing about court cases and judges and lawyers will decide who is right in each country. |
consumer rights really dont exist when it comes to software from big companies like Microsoft, Apple, Nintendo, and Sony.
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