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Forums - General - US Space Shuttle runs on 1MB of RAM and 80’s technology…still

Sqrl said:
highwaystar101 said:

 

Sqrl said:
highwaystar101 said:

 (apparently about the same spec as a modern day laptop, although I find this claim dubious)

Why does that sound so dubious?

If the equipment was installed in '80 it's been 360 months or 20 iterations of 18 month increments.

By Moore's law computers should be around 1,048,576x faster today than they were then.  Obviously it's not exactly that simple, but it's a good enough ballpark figure, and large enough that a laptop today could easily rival (or surpass) a supercomputer then.

Luckily for modern society, reptitous doubling gets out of hand rather quickly =)


You misunderstood my post...


Don't worry, I understand Moore's law. But I wasn't talking about the 1980's, I was talking about the 1960's Apollo mission. Yes a super computer in the 1980's would rival or even surpass a modern laptop; but in the 1960's, computing was a completely different game.


When the Apollo mission was launched in the late 1960's, the highest spec. computer in the world was the CPC7600, which could deliver 36MFlops, which is not a lot when you consider our modern laptops work with Gflops.


So either NASA had some secret super computer that massively outperformed the most powerful super computer of the day, or, as I think, the story has been romanticised by documentaries.

Sounds like it could be a case of the difference between coding efficiency then VS now.  As HappySqrl pointed out earlier the calculations on what has more $$ value has changed substantially since the 60's.  It used to be that the computer time was far and away worth more than the programmers time because the computers were ungodly expensive and the programmers usually worked for free or very little (depending on whether it was a business or university machine).  Now a programmer makes a tidy salary and the computer could be purchased out of the petty cash of most businesses.  Coding practices and what is and isn't acceptable efficiency change a lot to suit the standards of the day.

Then on top of pure incentive to have coding efficiency they had the advantage of being able to program for a specific architecture which gave them another advantage (not to mention not having to run some Albatross of an OS).

There is no way to determine how much any of those factors makes a difference, or if together they could make up the entire difference you're talking about, but I think they could go a long ways towards closing the gap.

I'm aware of what HappySquirrel said, coding efficiency back then was greater for obvious reasons. I accept that as fact.

But the functions of computers throughout history have often been similar regardless of power. I still have my first laptop from 1995, and whilst my current laptop massively outperforms it, the basic functions are still pretty similar. My old laptop runs an old version of MS word as well as my new laptop runs Word 2007.

Does this make my old laptop from 1995 as powerful as my new laptop? Not by a long shot.

What is different is that technically my new laptop is a lot more powerful than my old one. Coding efficiency does not enter into the equation when deciding which one of my laptops is more powerful, despite similar performance when running the relative programs.

I'm afraid that no matter how efficient the SPC7600 was, it is still not as powerful as a modern laptop.

*I'm hungover as fuck*



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highwaystar101 said:
Sqrl said:

Sounds like it could be a case of the difference between coding efficiency then VS now.  As HappySqrl pointed out earlier the calculations on what has more $$ value has changed substantially since the 60's.  It used to be that the computer time was far and away worth more than the programmers time because the computers were ungodly expensive and the programmers usually worked for free or very little (depending on whether it was a business or university machine).  Now a programmer makes a tidy salary and the computer could be purchased out of the petty cash of most businesses.  Coding practices and what is and isn't acceptable efficiency change a lot to suit the standards of the day.

Then on top of pure incentive to have coding efficiency they had the advantage of being able to program for a specific architecture which gave them another advantage (not to mention not having to run some Albatross of an OS).

There is no way to determine how much any of those factors makes a difference, or if together they could make up the entire difference you're talking about, but I think they could go a long ways towards closing the gap.

I'm aware of what HappySquirrel said, coding efficiency back then was greater for obvious reasons. I accept that as fact.

But the functions of computers throughout history have often been similar regardless of power. I still have my first laptop from 1995, and whilst my current laptop massively outperforms it, the basic functions are still pretty similar. My old laptop runs an old version of MS word as well as my new laptop runs Word 2007.

Does this make my old laptop from 1995 as powerful as my new laptop? Not by a long shot.

What is different is that technically my new laptop is a lot more powerful than my old one. Coding efficiency does not enter into the equation when deciding which one of my laptops is more powerful, despite similar performance when running the relative programs.

I'm afraid that no matter how efficient the SPC7600 was, it is still not as powerful as a modern laptop.

*I'm hungover as fuck*

Oh I'm not saying it actually is as powerful in terms of raw performance, but you can get some rather old equipment to match and even outperform newer equipment under some specific circumstances (and this possibly could be one of them). 

More to the point though I'm saying that these sorts of factors are probably what was being taken into account by whoever made the original claim of comparable power.  After all the people sent to do PR don't always present facts in the most exquisite technical detail =P



To Each Man, Responsibility
Sqrl said:
highwaystar101 said:

I'm aware of what HappySquirrel said, coding efficiency back then was greater for obvious reasons. I accept that as fact.

But the functions of computers throughout history have often been similar regardless of power. I still have my first laptop from 1995, and whilst my current laptop massively outperforms it, the basic functions are still pretty similar. My old laptop runs an old version of MS word as well as my new laptop runs Word 2007.

Does this make my old laptop from 1995 as powerful as my new laptop? Not by a long shot.

What is different is that technically my new laptop is a lot more powerful than my old one. Coding efficiency does not enter into the equation when deciding which one of my laptops is more powerful, despite similar performance when running the relative programs.

I'm afraid that no matter how efficient the SPC7600 was, it is still not as powerful as a modern laptop.

*I'm hungover as fuck*

Oh I'm not saying it actually is as powerful in terms of raw performance, but you can get some rather old equipment to match and even outperform newer equipment under some specific circumstances (and this possibly could be one of them). 

More to the point though I'm saying that these sorts of factors are probably what was being taken into account by whoever made the original claim of comparable power.  After all the people sent to do PR don't always present facts in the most exquisite technical detail =P

I know that you can get some old equipment to do some pretty amazing things when you put it under certain circumstances, I get a lot out of some of the old equipment I use at University. *Crosses fingers for new equipment this summer*.

I just think that it's a nice story, I've heard the claim two or three times, but I also think it has been highly romanticised. I think someone's augmented the truth to make it more appealing to the viewer, to make it sound rather more impressive than it actually is. I find documentaries (as well as articles and films, etc...) tend to do that with a wide variety of things.

(Another nice example of this kind of thing is Niels Bohr playing for the Danish national football team. Whilst he was a professional goalkeeper as well as a physicist, he most certainly never played for the Danish national football team. Yet this is claimed in almost every documentary about him because it makes the story of his life more appealing to the viewer.)



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updated: 14.01.2012

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