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Forums - Sales - Geohot hate piracy and stuff

Akvod on 31 March 2010
zarx said:
Akvod said:
The difference is in consent. You can gain ownership, permanent or temporary, for free if you have the consent of the original owner.

Taking someone's property without their consent, is theft, a violation of their property rights, and their natural right as a human being. It is in essence, slavery, since you're making someone slave away creating something, and then just taking it away. It's not an issue of compensation either. It's CONSENT.

did you get consent from the publishers of all the games you have on sold? I bet you didn't so your consent argument has no validity if you got consent fine but if you did ask the publishers for consent I bet you wouldn't get it.

Wut? Lol, you're defining consent as me literally going to the creators (which include hundreds of workers) and asking can I buy this? No, we have a complex economic system, with money, and retailers. If you're going to argue that Best Buy sells games without the consent of the creator, or that there isn't implicit and understood consent between me and the dev when I bought from Best Buy is to destroy our modern economy.

And what do you mean I wouldn't get it? If I ask the devs if I can buy their product, they want to make money, they offer a price, and I accept, where is the obstacle?

Fuck it, if you're going to argue that my transaction wasn't consensual, about the most fundamental and unanimously agreed upon beliefs, if you're questioning basic economics, I give up, you can't be convinced.

 



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zarx on 31 March 2010
Wonktonodi said:
what if I receive a game as a gift? that mean I didn't give any money to the developers for it. Yet the person who gives it to me did. What if they played the game first before giving it to me? The thing is though once they give me the game they can't play it any more.

With pirating it's creating an infinite amount of copies of the game. The produced of the game might have made only 1 million copies. As soon as someone uploads it it could be pirated 10 million 20 million times et cetera. While if I buy a used copy of the game that is one copy that others can't play only me. If someone wants to play the game but can't find the game used the have to buy it new or wait for it to be a lower price or available used.

but if a copy of the game you got as a gift you get board of it then on sell it then the next person on sells it and so on that one copy could allow an infinite number of people to play the games without the developers getting money from any but the first sale.



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Seece on 31 March 2010
Akvod said:
The difference is in consent. You can gain ownership, permanent or temporary, for free if you have the consent of the original owner.

Taking someone's property without their consent, is theft, a violation of their property rights, and their natural right as a human being. It is in essence, slavery, since you're making someone slave away creating something, and then just taking it away. It's not an issue of compensation either. It's CONSENT.

Good post, sums it up perfectly.



 

Wonktonodi on 31 March 2010
Porcupine_I said:
Legal copies are finite. Its supply and demand. If People like the game they will keep it, which mens less used copies and eventually people will have to buy new ones. Which means good games will sell, bad games won't.

Pirated copies are infinite, in the worst case there will one legal copy sold and Millions can play it, regardless of its quality.

exactly.  A new game that is very popular you won't see being sold used or if you do it won't be for very long.  Even with renting them it could take a very long time before you actually get to rent it because so many others want to play as well and the rental company only got so many copies.  Renting and buying used work within the system where there are only as many copies of the game to go around as the publisher makes.  Piracy cuts the publishers control.



Akvod on 31 March 2010
zarx said:
Wonktonodi said:
what if I receive a game as a gift? that mean I didn't give any money to the developers for it. Yet the person who gives it to me did. What if they played the game first before giving it to me? The thing is though once they give me the game they can't play it any more.

With pirating it's creating an infinite amount of copies of the game. The produced of the game might have made only 1 million copies. As soon as someone uploads it it could be pirated 10 million 20 million times et cetera. While if I buy a used copy of the game that is one copy that others can't play only me. If someone wants to play the game but can't find the game used the have to buy it new or wait for it to be a lower price or available used.

but if a copy of the game you got as a gift you get board of it then on sell it then the next person on sells it and so on that one copy could allow an infinite number of people to play the games without the developers getting money from any but the first sale.

Yes, but there is a transfer of ownership and consent between each owner.



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vaio on 31 March 2010
zarx said:
Wonktonodi said:
what if I receive a game as a gift? that mean I didn't give any money to the developers for it. Yet the person who gives it to me did. What if they played the game first before giving it to me? The thing is though once they give me the game they can't play it any more.

With pirating it's creating an infinite amount of copies of the game. The produced of the game might have made only 1 million copies. As soon as someone uploads it it could be pirated 10 million 20 million times et cetera. While if I buy a used copy of the game that is one copy that others can't play only me. If someone wants to play the game but can't find the game used the have to buy it new or wait for it to be a lower price or available used.

but if a copy of the game you got as a gift you get board of it then on sell it then the next person on sells it and so on that one copy could allow an infinite number of people to play the games without the developers getting money from any but the first sale.

You are wasting your time with theese people they rather forgive a murderer then acknowledge the possible benefits of piracy.



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In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.
Now the world is weird  and people take Prozac  to make it normal.

If laughing is the best medicine and marijuana makes you laugh

Is marijuana the best medicine?

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Kasz216 on 31 March 2010

The used market actually helps new sales. A lot of people buy games knowing they can sell them back a week after release and get back about half their money.

If it wasn't for the used market... these people wouldn't buy new.

It also takes away a lot of risk from people buying a new game, knowing you can get some money back and it has value.

Used sales help the market.

Piracy appears to be a nuetral factor. So used sales are better then piracy.



jarrod on 31 March 2010
superchunk said:
I 100% disagree with you as the big difference in pirating and renting/buying used is that money is still transfering hands and that allows the original purchaser to buy another new game. Thus, while renting/buying used is not as desirable to devs as everyone buying their own unique copy, its still not theft and in the long run the devs still profit something.

I agree, though there's also a distinction between digital piracy and theft.  Theft legally implies a loss of physical goods, with piracy there's only the loss of a potential (but not certain) sale.  Although, most legal systems worldwide don't actually make that distinction. :/



Wonktonodi on 31 March 2010
zarx said:
Wonktonodi said:
what if I receive a game as a gift? that mean I didn't give any money to the developers for it. Yet the person who gives it to me did. What if they played the game first before giving it to me? The thing is though once they give me the game they can't play it any more.

With pirating it's creating an infinite amount of copies of the game. The produced of the game might have made only 1 million copies. As soon as someone uploads it it could be pirated 10 million 20 million times et cetera. While if I buy a used copy of the game that is one copy that others can't play only me. If someone wants to play the game but can't find the game used the have to buy it new or wait for it to be a lower price or available used.

but if a copy of the game you got as a gift you get board of it then on sell it then the next person on sells it and so on that one copy could allow an infinite number of people to play the games without the developers getting money from any but the first sale.

but only one person could play it at a time. Even if each peson had the game for a day a single game would only get to 365 people in a year.  Far from infinite.   If someone doesn't want to wait that long they have to buy it new.  If the publisher is noticing that the game isn't selling they would lower the price. 



vaio on 31 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
The used market actually helps new sales. A lot of people buy games knowing they can sell them back a week after release and get back about half their money.

If it wasn't for the used market... these people wouldn't buy new.

It also takes away a lot of risk from people buying a new game, knowing you can get some money back and it has value.

Used sales help the market.

Piracy appears to be a nuetral factor. So used sales are better then piracy.

So if someone downlods a game and likes it and then decides to buy it, that doesnt help the market?



Vaio - "Bury me at Milanello"      R.I.P AC Milan

In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.
Now the world is weird  and people take Prozac  to make it normal.

If laughing is the best medicine and marijuana makes you laugh

Is marijuana the best medicine?

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

“If any creator has not played Mario, then they’re probably not a good creator. That’s something I can say with 100 percent confidence. Mario is, for game creators, the development bible.