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Forums - Sony - Sony's Removal of "Other OS" May Be Against EU Law

 

Sony's Removal of "Other OS" May Be Against EU Law

Bad Sony, bad! 131 69.31%
 
I still hope it's an early April's Fools 58 30.69%
 
Total:189
gamelover2000 said:
Damnyou.. we know what bias your posts mostly are..

Sony has full right to remove this feature as it says so in the manual.. they have full right over adding/removing the non-100% needed features..

Yes they do. However, they advertised the PS3 originally with the Linux-support as a significant feature included, and many people WOULD consider that a "100% needed feature". After all, who are YOU to tell me which features of my system I consider necessary to my use of the system?



 SW-5120-1900-6153

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Damnyouall
i gotta say you waste too much time on shit you don't even care about, just stop and go play whatever you like.



I live for the burn...and the sting of pleasure...
I live for the sword, the steel, and the gun...

- Wasteland - The Mission.

thetonestarr said:
gamelover2000 said:
Damnyou.. we know what bias your posts mostly are..

Sony has full right to remove this feature as it says so in the manual.. they have full right over adding/removing the non-100% needed features..

Yes they do. However, they advertised the PS3 originally with the Linux-support as a significant feature included, and many people WOULD consider that a "100% needed feature". After all, who are YOU to tell me which features of my system I consider necessary to my use of the system?

well the Xbox was advertised to get online for free, is that even true? plus i didn't see an advertisment with " IT ONLY DOES LINUX "



I live for the burn...and the sting of pleasure...
I live for the sword, the steel, and the gun...

- Wasteland - The Mission.

Didn't the hackers users use to fin workarounds in the old days?
Toughen up you guys've become soft.



Severance said:
Damnyouall
i gotta say you waste too much time on shit you don't even care about, just stop and go play whatever you like.

But I really do care about it. That's why I pointed out that those of us who feel wronged may indeed have a case.

Allowing Sony to get away with removing advertised features from their products AFTER having sold them would set a dangerous precedent.
And lookie there, lawsuits are actually coming up.

EDIT:
Consider this: They take away something you paid for and don't even offer any compensation.
Food for thought: For the price of a launch model PS3 you could probably buy a cheap Linux PC and a PS3 Slim now.



"Well certainly with the Xbox 360, we had some challenges at the launch. Once we identified that we took control of it. We wanted to do it right by our customers. Our customers are very important to us." -Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb (10/2013). Note: RRoD was fixed with the Jasper-revision 3 years after the launch of 360

"People don't pay attention to a lot of the details."-Yusuf Mehdi explaining why Xbone DRM scheme would succeed

"Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360,”-Don Mattrick

"The region locking of the 3DS wasn't done for profits on games"-MDMAlliance

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Damnyouall
You know the terms and conditions page you accept when you first update?
Ask you a question, do you own a PS3? Me thinks you do not. If this is the case, what the hell are you going on about!



 

 assumption is the mother of all f**k ups 

Not that it matters, but I own two phat PS3s, both launch models, one of which I use exclusively as media center.



"Well certainly with the Xbox 360, we had some challenges at the launch. Once we identified that we took control of it. We wanted to do it right by our customers. Our customers are very important to us." -Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb (10/2013). Note: RRoD was fixed with the Jasper-revision 3 years after the launch of 360

"People don't pay attention to a lot of the details."-Yusuf Mehdi explaining why Xbone DRM scheme would succeed

"Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360,”-Don Mattrick

"The region locking of the 3DS wasn't done for profits on games"-MDMAlliance

joshin69 said:
Damnyouall
You know the terms and conditions page you accept when you first update?
Ask you a question, do you own a PS3? Me thinks you do not. If this is the case, what the hell are you going on about!

Agreeing to ToC would not allow you to go about doing something unlawful. At least that's how it works in the EU :)

I think Sony could get into trouble with this.



There may be hope for US PS3 owners, too:

http://boardsus.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-3-Updates/FW-3-21-and-Consumer-Right-s-Law-No-Conjecture-Just-Facts/m-p/45454241

FW 3.21 and Consumer Right's Law: No Conjecture, Just Facts

[ Edited ]

Hello all,


I noticed there was some consternation on this topic, so I thought I'd toss my hat in the ring.  I apologize for creating yet another thread on the subject, but the others had grown trollish enough in tone and tenor that I felt a new one was merited. 

 

First and foremost, let me fully qualify my opinion on the matter:

 

I'm not a PS3 user (in fact, I own a 360), so this change does not personally effect me.  I actually created this account for the sole purpose of discussing this issue.

 

I am, however, a Law Student and an ardent suporter of Consumer Rights (especially in the tech industry), FOSS, net neutrality and that ilk. As such, I have a very strong personal interest in the matter.

 

That being said, after examining the relevant web content on Sony's website, as well as the FTC's website, I can say with a degree of certainty that the proposed Firmware update WOULD, in fact, violate US Consumer Protection Laws.

 

My sources:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm

http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/o
sinstall.html

 

The case is quite simple.

 

The FTC defines "advertisement" as "any form of public notice however disseminated or utilized."  In this case, the second Sony owned and maintained website, detailing how to install an alternate OS on a PS3.  In a legal sense, Other OS is an advertisement feature of the applicable models of the Sony PS3.


As such, Sony is legally obligated to honor that advertisement.  Should they disable Other OS with the oncoming Firmware update, they would be committing an ex post facto "Bait and Switch", according to US Consumer Protection Laws.

 

This being said, I highly encourage all PS3 users who feel jilted by this change to stick to your guns.  Post in the forums, call their customer service hotline and, should the need arise, find a Class Action suit to join.  Despite what the detractors may say, the law IS, in fact, on your side.

 

Peace, Love and Empathy,

 

           Jaecyn42

 

EDIT:

 

I decided to add this information to the original post, as it may get lost in the body of the thread.

 

The FTC's online complaint form:

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

 

The Canadian Office of Consumer Affairs' Cosumer Handbook:

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/h_ca02349.html



"Well certainly with the Xbox 360, we had some challenges at the launch. Once we identified that we took control of it. We wanted to do it right by our customers. Our customers are very important to us." -Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb (10/2013). Note: RRoD was fixed with the Jasper-revision 3 years after the launch of 360

"People don't pay attention to a lot of the details."-Yusuf Mehdi explaining why Xbone DRM scheme would succeed

"Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360,”-Don Mattrick

"The region locking of the 3DS wasn't done for profits on games"-MDMAlliance

joshin69 said:
Damnyouall
You know the terms and conditions page you accept when you first update?
Ask you a question, do you own a PS3? Me thinks you do not. If this is the case, what the hell are you going on about!

There is a legal principle that goes something like: you can't contract out of the law. That means it doesn't matter what you put in your terms and conditions or EULA, you can't force someone to accept your unlawful actions by making them sign a document saying they will let you do it.

If indeed there is a law that says you cannot force removal of functionality from a device which was openly advertised as an intended capability of the device then you can't use a ToC or EULA to allow you to contravene that law. Sony can put it in their EULA/ToC and brush people off by saying "look you agreed to this in the ToC / EULA, so we can do what we want", but it doesn't mean such clauses will stand up to competent legal challenge. I was being facetious in my previous post (and I still think overall it's an obscure little known law, otherwise Sony wouldn't be trying it on) but I do think it's likely that a well organised and funded legal challenge to this would probably see any clauses in EULAs opr ToCs rendered null and void, which would have some quite serious implications well beyond what Sony might want to do in future with PS3 FW updates if it became a legal precedent in the EU.

In any case these things are not true contracts because there is no oportunity to negotiate conditions or variations. Before you even get to see the EULA/ToC you have to buy the device most of the time, which means you have committed youself to signing something before you've even had a chance to look at what you're committing yourself to. You are basically forced to accept the conditions more or less under a state of duress, because if you don't hit the little "accept" button then if your system doesn't become an expensive paperweight right then it soon will.

There's probably only 1 watertight clause in most EULAs / ToCs and that is a clause saying that you agree not to use the device / software for illegal activities, and the manufacturer is indemnified from any illegal activities you do commit using the device you have purchased.

I don't have a problem with Sony releasing 3.21 for myself and 90% or more of phat users wouldn't have a problem either. But for those people who do use (or want to use) OtherOS on their phat they should be able to do so without having some of the other essential functions of their PS3s cease to function.

You see that's where Sony overstepped the mark. It isn't in the removing of the OtherOS functionality, its in the removing of other functionality if you don't remove OtherOS functionality. They've presented OtherOS users with an unacceptable ultimatum: either use your PS3 as a Linux computer and media centre, or use it as a gaming machine and media centre, but you cannot use it as a Linux computer and gaming machine.

What Sony should have done is give an optional added benefit to accepting 3.21 to incentivise uptake. Perhaps a 1 month 15% discount on PSN titles, or some other basically no cost little treat that most people with think "hey nice, and all I have to do is disable a function I never use". Then the OtherOS users have the choice of keeping Linux and missing out on some wee bonus offer that no one can claim any legal right to or ditching Linux for some little e-trinket that amounts to not very much. If you take the e-trinket then you weren't much of a committed OtherOS user at the end of the day. But no, they had to take the punative line, threatening people with loss of functionality of they don't take up this "optional" FW update, that was guaranteed to get some people's backs up.

Consumer choice in the totalitarian dictator style, always works a treat.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix