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Forums - General - Why do people in the UK often pretend they're not in Europe?

radishhead on 14 March 2010

Because other European countries hate us, so we try to separate ourselves from them. We'll never do well in the Eurovision Song Contest because the only people who would even consider voting for England is Ireland - another UK country.



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Lord Flashheart on 14 March 2010

The eurovision song contest is broken and full of political voting.
We can't win because if this. it's fixed against us.

I can't wait til it's on. Anyone know when?



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Lord Flashheart on 14 March 2010

29th May.



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Lord Flashheart on 14 March 2010

Thanks Flash.



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Kasz216 on 14 March 2010
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Ok, i'll put it another way. Plate tectonics dictates geography. As for the "larger point" It's irrelevent. If India ever becomes part of the eurasian tectonic plate... it would then lose it's sub continent status.

Are you really telling me that you consider eastern Russia to be actually part of North America? 

I mean, it's part of the same tectonic plate, so in the "plate tectonics geography" sense it certainly is, but I don't think of it that way, I think of it as part of Asia's Far East.  But you think of it as "the Far West"? 
No, because of the other dictating factor to being a continent. Being connected by a large stretch of land. Plate tectonics are what decide a sub continent vs a pennisula.

So ... wait.  Being an active plate makes the difference between a subcontinent and a mere peninsula, but a small difference in water level can decide what CONTINENT huge areas of land belong to regardless of plate tectonics? 

Fishy, my friend, very fishy. 

This makes me wonder:  In the last Ice Age when the Bering Strait was dry, was Eurasia a subcontinent of North and South America, or the other way around?  (South America is of course a subcontinent of North America, of course, because (A) we're the REAL America and (B) we're on top.)

How is that fishy?  It's actual science, geography and geology.


I don't quite remember what the land looked like in the last ice age... but when deterimining a sub continent from continent "prime" there is an easy answer.

Whatever is bigger in area.  This is where size comes in.  Whichever land mass is bigger is it's own continent.

Which i'm guessing would be Eurasia... but like I said... I don't have a good map of the iceage I can find... and it's been ages since i've taken historical geography. 

Worst class i've ever taken.  We had 100 question tests... WEEKLY.  You practically had to know his lectures verbatum.

You'd think I'd still remember the continents of the last ice age because I had to know every little thing about it, but nope.



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Kasz216 on 14 March 2010
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
I've already rebutted that point twice in the thread as to why Europe ISN'T culturally distinct from asia... to which nobody has offered a proper reply. If you were to divide Asia and Europe into two continents by culture... the Middle East and Indian areas would in fact be part of "Europe". Due to those nations being closer to Europe culturally then asia. When people make the cultural arguement... what they really mean is "White people live here! Non white people live in Asia!" It's an artificat of past racism.

Isn't it true that, although people often think of Asia as "entire Eurasian supercontinent minus Europe", if you actually ask them about it they'll consider India and the Middle East separate entites from "Asia"?  IMO that both supports your point and undercuts your position. 

At the very least wouldn't you agree that when you say "part of Europe" you mean that only if forced to choose between "it's Europe" and "it's Asia"?  BTW I think this whole culture argument is a big mess you might well be underestimating; well, the Middle East is probably closer to Europe, but India ... I dunno, it's pretty different from both IMO. 

I don't see how that actually undercuts my point. Even if they were saw as seperate entities they aren't seen as continents... when their claim is stronger because geographically... at least they are sub continents while Europe is nothing more then a pennisula... even England itself would have more of a claim to continent then England would... due to it not being connected to mainland europe by land. This does bring me around to my central point though that people missed in their rage over geographical and geological fact. Europe as a continent was created out of europeon vanity on sketchy scientific terms... the same is true for the UK not being part of europe. If your going to use subjective measures in place of scientific measures... you can't rightfully say the UK is part of europe since continents then become something simply a matter of opinion... meaningless designations to vaguely define cultural and poltical situations when there already exist better terms for it since terms like this still combine countries like Slovenia with England.

Europe is as much of a subcontinent as either of those (more cuz it's bigger ), it's just that the other two were more recently attached. 

Also technically isn't England connected by land via the Chunnel? 

Size is irrelevent when deterimining a sub continent. You may as well say i'm more a millionaire then Bill Gates because i'm taller. As for the Chunnel... that's underground isn't it? Even if it isn't... it's certaintly no bigger then Panama or the Suez canal areas which aren't big enough geographically or geologically to be considered a continent.

I thought you just said size doesn't matter, but now I guess the Baja California peninsula isn't a subcontinent either

And I thought the winky face made the joke evident, but that was in fact a joke. 

Finally, it's an interesting question whether underground tunnels "count" geographically as connecting two areas that are separated on the surface.  I am sympathetic to the position you hold that they do not.  But in any case the size of the connection would not matter.  I don't know what you are even referring to here, unless you mean the artificial waterways could be seen as separating the two formerly united landmasses but don't count because of the small width of said passages. 

P.S.  Are you now agreeing that Europe is a subcontinent? 

Size is irrelevent when decided a sub continent.

It's not irrelvent when deciding an a continent. 

To be a continent you need to not be connected to another "continent" by a large piece of land... and be the largest owner of a teconic plate.  (For example how North America owns more of the North American Plate then the afore mentioned east russia.

For example, the Ural mountains are why Europe is not a continent... yet because of the Suez area and Panama areas don't make Africa and South American not continents because of their size.

If you have your own tectonic plate... but are connected by a broad stretch ofland, you are a sub continent.

If you don't have your own plate but aren't connected by land, your an island.

If you don't have either... your a penisula.

Unless you don't even have 3 sides of water... in which case your pretty much nothing.

So, for example if North America and the Eurasian plates were to become one... North America would become a VERY big island to europe.

 

I'm pretty sure there is a third requirement regardign size to being a continent as well, but for the life of me I really don't know how big you'd need to be to fit the qualifcation of it.  Somewhere around the size of Australia i'd guess since that's considered a continent yet their are no Pacific continents and i'm pretty sure they have their own plate.



Final-Fan on 14 March 2010
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Ok, i'll put it another way. Plate tectonics dictates geography. As for the "larger point" It's irrelevent. If India ever becomes part of the eurasian tectonic plate... it would then lose it's sub continent status.

Are you really telling me that you consider eastern Russia to be actually part of North America? 

I mean, it's part of the same tectonic plate, so in the "plate tectonics geography" sense it certainly is, but I don't think of it that way, I think of it as part of Asia's Far East.  But you think of it as "the Far West"? 
No, because of the other dictating factor to being a continent. Being connected by a large stretch of land. Plate tectonics are what decide a sub continent vs a pennisula.

So ... wait.  Being an active plate makes the difference between a subcontinent and a mere peninsula, but a small difference in water level can decide what CONTINENT huge areas of land belong to regardless of plate tectonics? 

Fishy, my friend, very fishy. 

This makes me wonder:  In the last Ice Age when the Bering Strait was dry, was Eurasia a subcontinent of North and South America, or the other way around?  (South America is of course a subcontinent of North America, of course, because (A) we're the REAL America and (B) we're on top.)

How is that fishy?  It's actual science, geography and geology.

I don't quite remember what the land looked like in the last ice age... but when deterimining a sub continent from continent "prime" there is an easy answer.

Whatever is bigger in area.  This is where size comes in.  Whichever land mass is bigger is it's own continent.

Which i'm guessing would be Eurasia... but like I said... I don't have a good map of the iceage I can find... and it's been ages since i've taken historical geography. 

Worst class i've ever taken.  We had 100 question tests... WEEKLY.  You practically had to know his lectures verbatum.

You'd think I'd still remember the continents of the last ice age because I had to know every little thing about it, but nope.

It seems very questionable to me that the land west of the Bering Strait, land that belongs to THE NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENTAL PLATE, is geologically considered part of Eurasia.  Regardless of the dryness or wetness of the Bering Strait. 

And incidentally, some people consider North and South America as a single continent ... which would be bigger than Eurasia I believe, otherwise Eurasia very probably wins. 

The continents would be pretty much the same, only bigger to greater or lesser degree depending on how shallow their coasts are.  Obviously the Bering Strait is shallow enough to have been above sea level at that time, connecting all the continents except Antarctica and (I'm pretty sure) Australia. 
Here's a map I found:  http://www.scotese.com/lastice.htm  Southeast Asia and Australia are the obvious big winners; Africa seems to have the least change. 



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Kasz216 on 14 March 2010
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Ok, i'll put it another way. Plate tectonics dictates geography. As for the "larger point" It's irrelevent. If India ever becomes part of the eurasian tectonic plate... it would then lose it's sub continent status.

Are you really telling me that you consider eastern Russia to be actually part of North America? 

I mean, it's part of the same tectonic plate, so in the "plate tectonics geography" sense it certainly is, but I don't think of it that way, I think of it as part of Asia's Far East.  But you think of it as "the Far West"? 
No, because of the other dictating factor to being a continent. Being connected by a large stretch of land. Plate tectonics are what decide a sub continent vs a pennisula.

So ... wait.  Being an active plate makes the difference between a subcontinent and a mere peninsula, but a small difference in water level can decide what CONTINENT huge areas of land belong to regardless of plate tectonics? 

Fishy, my friend, very fishy. 

This makes me wonder:  In the last Ice Age when the Bering Strait was dry, was Eurasia a subcontinent of North and South America, or the other way around?  (South America is of course a subcontinent of North America, of course, because (A) we're the REAL America and (B) we're on top.)

How is that fishy?  It's actual science, geography and geology.

I don't quite remember what the land looked like in the last ice age... but when deterimining a sub continent from continent "prime" there is an easy answer.

Whatever is bigger in area.  This is where size comes in.  Whichever land mass is bigger is it's own continent.

Which i'm guessing would be Eurasia... but like I said... I don't have a good map of the iceage I can find... and it's been ages since i've taken historical geography. 

Worst class i've ever taken.  We had 100 question tests... WEEKLY.  You practically had to know his lectures verbatum.

You'd think I'd still remember the continents of the last ice age because I had to know every little thing about it, but nope.

It seems very questionable to me that the land west of the Bering Strait, land that belongs to THE NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENTAL PLATE, is geologically considered part of Eurasia.  Regardless of the dryness or wetness of the Bering Strait. 

And incidentally, some people consider North and South America as a single continent ... which would be bigger than Eurasia I believe, otherwise Eurasia very probably wins. 

The continents would be pretty much the same, only bigger to greater or lesser degree depending on how shallow their coasts are.  Obviously the Bering Strait is shallow enough to have been above sea level at that time, connecting all the continents except Antarctica and (I'm pretty sure) Australia. 
Here's a map I found:  http://www.scotese.com/lastice.htm  Southeast Asia and Australia are the obvious big winners; Africa seems to have the least change. 

I don't know why that seems questionable to you.  Honestly in this case... i can't see because of the way the picture is... is the bering stratight really larger then Panama or the Suez connections before canals were put in.

Also, something I forgot to mention before... underwater land masses can't count.  I mean otherwise... there would be only one continent... since the earth is just one solid sphere of land in reality.



Lostplanet22 on 14 March 2010

Because you hear a lot 'In UK it is different'

They drive on the wrong side of the road (or good one).

Their electricity supplies are different The UK uses a square, three pin plug that has a fuse built into the plug body. The fuse is normally 3, 5, 10 or 13A. Mainland Europe uses a round, two pin plug with the earth pin either protruding from the socket or two blades that connect with the outside of the plug.

Their is an hour difference between the UK and Mainland Europe

And you can go on....

And how more you hear say they do that different how more you will say 'We and they' then 'We'



 

Lord Flashheart on 14 March 2010
Final-Fan said:


The continents would be pretty much the same, only bigger to greater or lesser degree depending on how shallow their coasts are.  Obviously the Bering Strait is shallow enough to have been above sea level at that time, connecting all the continents except Antarctica and (I'm pretty sure) Australia. 
Here's a map I found:  http://www.scotese.com/lastice.htm  Southeast Asia and Australia are the obvious big winners; Africa seems to have the least change. 

That map is from the Day after Tomorrow



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