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Forums - Website Topics - Why Ad Blocking is devastating to the sites you love

nordlead said:
the2bears said:
What's the solution for a) those blocking JavaScript for security reasons, and b) poorly written Flash/JavaScript ads that start using up clock cycles and have huge memory leaks? These are real reasons, never mind how long it takes a site inundated with ads to load. I love how this is painted as "damage" and such. There are very legitimate reasons for running something like NoScript.

Cross-site scripting carried out on websites were roughly 80% of all security vulnerabilities documented by Symantec as of 2007. You can enable noscript to block all XSS while still loading all the regular scripts. This would still load all the content that is intentionally being run on this website without putting your PC at risk. This is what I do, and I see no problem with it.

Blocking all scripts in the name of security is just done by those who aren't aware of what the real security threats are.

Or those that don't have time, can't be bothered or don't want to bother spending time learning how to only block real threats when all they want to do is browse the internet for a short period of time safely.



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ioi said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:

And I'd lke to state once again, I'm not 'complaining' about viewing the ads.  Just that certain ones are redirecting me or taking over my browser.

Ads that do something malicious (i.e direct to a site outside of VGChartz, try to download a virus), popup ads, ads that take over a browser should NOT be on here and if they are please tell me about them so I can get them removed. It is not our policy to run ads like this and it annoys me as much as it annoys you if they are there - they certainly shouldn't be.

 

Ads that are designed to be there and do what they do (such as the prestitial Disney XD ad, the banners on the site, the skin ads) are meant to be there and it is a case of if you don't like them then I'm sorry but that's your problem. They are as numerous, intrusive and distracting as they need to be (i.e not very in any of those cases I just listed) to cover the costs of running the site.

 

Any ads that blatantly shouldn't be there need to be reported to me so I can take action to the extent of removing the ad network completely if they can't be trusted.

There's also the question of what we classify as 'pop up' or 'redirection' ads.  I may be classifying them different.  But as an example, I posted an image of two such ads on page 44 of this thread, if you want an example of what I consider both a redirection and pop up ad.

ANother annoying type of pop up ad are those mouse-over pop up ads that take up the screen when your mouse scrolls over them.  One I've been seeing on the main page is a Red Toshiba ad.  Though I don't have a screen cap for it yet.



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

ioi said:
phisheep said:

There's a lot going on here, so I'll keep it brief.

The first bolded bit above (that guests outnumber members 4 or 5 to 1) suggests to me that much of this thread is misdirected. All the stuff about Terms of Use for example, because guests don't sign up to it. All the stuff about blocking adblockers for example, because so long as ioi keeps doing the good job he is doing getting links and clickthroughs in the press, the last thing that's needed is for a new guest to visit the site for the first time only to see 'you have to turn off your adblocker'. If I saw that on a site I would be deeply deeply suspicious. About as suspicious as I am about reverse charge calls from Nigeria.

So that seems to me an empty threat until such time as the site is segmented to separate out the numbers stuff from the games stuff and the forum stuff - because probably the vast majority of drive-by visitors are coming through numbers links.

So all this threat stuff should never really have come up.

The second bolded bit (it's a power struggle) is, I think, a bit over the top. The thread degenerated fast after that jibe - not from ioi personally but from one of the guys - that all adblockers are thieves. Much of what happened since then ihappened as a reaction to that. And pretty justifiable reaction, I think, to an unwarranted, untrue and very definitely rude statement.

It's not a power struggle. It is just a conversation that got a bit out of hand.

I guess most people reading this thread are, like me, supportive of the idea behind the original article; generally supportive of the need to persuade people to avoid using adblock except where necessary, but are slightly nervous about the prospect of adblocking being used as a means to deny access to content - not only for personal reasons, but also for fear of what impact it would have on the site's viability going forward given the high volume of guest traffic generated by exxternal links/casual visits.. But that last point is a business matter for ioi, and it isn't for me to speculate about it.

 

 

Terms of service applies to guest as well as members. As it says in the TOS, the browsing of the site constitutes agreement. This is a standard thing.

The adblocking rule would apply to guest as well - if someone did click through with an adblocker they could be greeted with a message just like you say. It would be upto them whether to turn it off and view the content or close the window.

The site will be split as you say in the next 6 weeks actually, and no it's not a hollow threat.

It came up because I wanted to explain to people who weren't aware what the issues are.

Some of the comments and the way in which users are presenting their argument (if you did this you'd lose the community and the site wouldn't survive kinda thing) is attempting to be a power struggle. "If you do this, we'll do that and then you'll be sorry". That's not how it works here, I'm afraid. I didn't say it was a power struggle but that people seem to think it is.

I appreciate your concerns but obviously any decisions would only be made after evaluating the full impact.

That's interesting about splitting the site up - must have missed that somewhere along the way (I vanished for a long time after 2.0 came out because my monitor wasn't wide enough - now have new monitor, so I'm back!).

Given that, I see why it's a live issue.

My point on ToS was not that it doesn't apply to guests, but simply that because thay don't actually sign up to anything unlike members  (regardless of what the ToS says) it is far less likely to be enforceable vis-a-vis guests, at least in common law jurisdictions. Sorry to be pernickerty - just spent a day teaching bad Law students, so legal stuff still wafting around my head.



ioi said:
cdude1034 said:

this site cannot survive without the community. Conversely, the community can survive without the site - we can just move to a new site.

You assume that VGChartz is just a forum and ignore all the other aspects that make up the site. The fact that there are normally 4-5 times as many guests as members on the site should show you that VGChartz is more of a passive site than an active site like Facebook or a forum. I don't see the survival of VGChartz as being dependant on the forum community - as great as the community is, the forums are just one small part of the whole VGChartz business.

What seems to be emerging here is a power struggle. "Hey, i've been on this site for years, I post loads and helped to build this site - you should be greatful to me and let me do what I want!" That's fantastic, and I'm certainly greatful that you've stuck with VGChartz and enjoyed coming here but at the end of the day we've provided the service to you, not the other way round!! We're creating, running, hosting and managing the site so that you can come here and post in the forum and chat about your topics of interest. We provide a service and in return we ask users to pay for that service in some way. I don't believe that is unreasonable, whether you've been on the site for 4 seconds or 4 years.

If a restriction on users with adblockers were to cause a small amount of people to take it personally and leave then that's your loss at the end of the day but if you feel unwilling to support a site that you have visited and used with such regularity then I'm afraid it wouldn't be a great loss to VGChartz.

While i dont use Adblock i do hate when im playing music and ads are playing in the back ground...

Its like

 

"First off you know what it is if you heard drake makin hoes wobble like a bridge and *Loud Glass Breaking* BIOSHOCK 2 NOW AVAILABLE!" Or the ads were people talk..

 

As for the quoted post, Im sure im alone when i say i dont care about sales numbers or anything like that im here for the Community. Sure i could go else where but i like the mods on here, they actually do there job (sometimes not always fair) but it puts a huge smile on my face seeing "PS3OwnsRRODBOx360" getting banned for Trolling and not getting away with it.



phisheep said:
ioi said:
phisheep said:

There's a lot going on here, so I'll keep it brief.

The first bolded bit above (that guests outnumber members 4 or 5 to 1) suggests to me that much of this thread is misdirected. All the stuff about Terms of Use for example, because guests don't sign up to it. All the stuff about blocking adblockers for example, because so long as ioi keeps doing the good job he is doing getting links and clickthroughs in the press, the last thing that's needed is for a new guest to visit the site for the first time only to see 'you have to turn off your adblocker'. If I saw that on a site I would be deeply deeply suspicious. About as suspicious as I am about reverse charge calls from Nigeria.

So that seems to me an empty threat until such time as the site is segmented to separate out the numbers stuff from the games stuff and the forum stuff - because probably the vast majority of drive-by visitors are coming through numbers links.

So all this threat stuff should never really have come up.

The second bolded bit (it's a power struggle) is, I think, a bit over the top. The thread degenerated fast after that jibe - not from ioi personally but from one of the guys - that all adblockers are thieves. Much of what happened since then ihappened as a reaction to that. And pretty justifiable reaction, I think, to an unwarranted, untrue and very definitely rude statement.

It's not a power struggle. It is just a conversation that got a bit out of hand.

I guess most people reading this thread are, like me, supportive of the idea behind the original article; generally supportive of the need to persuade people to avoid using adblock except where necessary, but are slightly nervous about the prospect of adblocking being used as a means to deny access to content - not only for personal reasons, but also for fear of what impact it would have on the site's viability going forward given the high volume of guest traffic generated by exxternal links/casual visits.. But that last point is a business matter for ioi, and it isn't for me to speculate about it.

 

 

Terms of service applies to guest as well as members. As it says in the TOS, the browsing of the site constitutes agreement. This is a standard thing.

The adblocking rule would apply to guest as well - if someone did click through with an adblocker they could be greeted with a message just like you say. It would be upto them whether to turn it off and view the content or close the window.

The site will be split as you say in the next 6 weeks actually, and no it's not a hollow threat.

It came up because I wanted to explain to people who weren't aware what the issues are.

Some of the comments and the way in which users are presenting their argument (if you did this you'd lose the community and the site wouldn't survive kinda thing) is attempting to be a power struggle. "If you do this, we'll do that and then you'll be sorry". That's not how it works here, I'm afraid. I didn't say it was a power struggle but that people seem to think it is.

I appreciate your concerns but obviously any decisions would only be made after evaluating the full impact.

That's interesting about splitting the site up - must have missed that somewhere along the way (I vanished for a long time after 2.0 came out because my monitor wasn't wide enough - now have new monitor, so I'm back!).

Given that, I see why it's a live issue.

My point on ToS was not that it doesn't apply to guests, but simply that because thay don't actually sign up to anything unlike members  (regardless of what the ToS says) it is far less likely to be enforceable vis-a-vis guests, at least in common law jurisdictions. Sorry to be pernickerty - just spent a day teaching bad Law students, so legal stuff still wafting around my head.

Surely you would have to have the ToS pop up and the unregistered user agree to them before the site was even displayed to even argue that they are enforceable.



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llewdebkram said:

 

Surely you would have to have the ToS pop up and the unregistered user agree to them before the site was even displayed to even argue that they are enforceable.

*places legal hat on*

Not necessarily. There are other ways of doing it - same as the way you get landed with a whole load of terms and conditions you never heard of when you buy a railway ticket or a plane ticket.

It's all a bit slippery on the internet though, and the law isn't all that well developed, and developing differently in different places. It's possible that without payment none of it is enforceable anyway, for example, at least in common law countries. And it isn't necessarily a good thing to make it more contractual, because then you end up with the chance of being on the wrong end of a lawsuit.

It is muddy as hell.

*removes legal hat because fed up of wearing it today*

 



phisheep said:
llewdebkram said:

 

Surely you would have to have the ToS pop up and the unregistered user agree to them before the site was even displayed to even argue that they are enforceable.

*places legal hat on*

Not necessarily. There are other ways of doing it - same as the way you get landed with a whole load of terms and conditions you never heard of when you buy a railway ticket or a plane ticket.

It's all a bit slippery on the internet though, and the law isn't all that well developed, and developing differently in different places. It's possible that without payment none of it is enforceable anyway, for example, at least in common law countries. And it isn't necessarily a good thing to make it more contractual, because then you end up with the chance of being on the wrong end of a lawsuit.

It is muddy as hell.

*removes legal hat because fed up of wearing it today*

 

I imagine legally a lot of websites ToS are complete rubbish anyway and more about what the website owner really wants rather than what they can legally enforce.

A bit like the signs that say 'we take no responsibility for your car in our car park, coat in cloackroom or shoes at our skating rink.'

The truth is they don't want to be liable or be seen to be liable but in law the signs mean absolutely nothing and they are in many cases indeed liable.

 

'No ball games' put up by a council is another one, it's also not legally enforceable.

'No refunds, our policy is to give a credit note' is also rubbish, in most cases they legally have to give a refund if the goods are faulty or not fit for purpose.



@ ioi

if you really want to split the site up or something, i'd suggest getting ads fixed so they are 100% clean at all times anything else is just stupid because then you expect people to compromise their own computer.



Kemsus said:
@ ioi

if you really want to split the site up or something, i'd suggest getting ads fixed so they are 100% clean at all times anything else is just stupid because then you expect people to compromise their own computer.

It's in this sites ToS that they take no responsibility for content on this site that causes problems, within reason.



i'm sorry, but i hate ads. I'm afraid i can't help ya.