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Forums - Gaming - Forget 7 - EDGE given FFXIII a 5!

lestatdark said:
Well, it was kinda expected, plus their review isn't that bad, just that the linearity let them down big time.

Plus, they gave Dragon Age a 5 too, so FFXIII = DA:O is really awesome in my book :P

Though I didn't like DA all that much. I still say it deserves an 8.



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I'm guessing Edge aren't graphics whores. LOL!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

psrock said:
JRPG as an genre has not evolved, crazy thing is, FFXIII is the game SE tried to be a little different, yet still get blasted by fans and reviewers.

thank God it's not a genre I care for.

Yeah, it seems to me that this certain genre is stuck between a rock and a hard place this generation. JRPG's haven't seen the success they've been used to for the past couple generations, especially on consoles (at least Pokemon is still going strong).

That said, I wish the best for FFXIII. I hope it pleases the fans and does well on the market (on both consoles).



Smeags said:
psrock said:
JRPG as an genre has not evolved, crazy thing is, FFXIII is the game SE tried to be a little different, yet still get blasted by fans and reviewers.

thank God it's not a genre I care for.

Yeah, it seems to me that this certain genre is stuck between a rock and a hard place this generation. JRPG's haven't seen the success they've been used to for the past couple generations, especially on consoles (at least Pokemon is still going strong).

That said, I wish the best for FFXIII. I hope it pleases the fans and does well on the market (on both consoles).

Oh it definitely will. I am dieing to play. The reasons being stated for negativity are things that I like, or things that will not annoy me. Reviewers told me that The Last Remnant was a piece of garbage. I played it, and it is my favorite JRPG this gen. So...i'll take my chances!



r505Matt said:
Alic0004 said:
r505Matt said:
Alic0004 said:
I know that Edge grades on a wider scale in general. I also haven't played the game, so I can't really offer any judgment. However, I will say this:

A game being polished is different from a game simply not having glaring or game-breaking bugs. The number of really polished video games we get every year is actually very small, and I do think that a highly polished game (say one that offers a smoother experience than 99% of the other games released every year) should indeed get above a mediocre or average score, whether or not the reviewer agrees with the design philosophies of the game. You don't give Starcraft a mediocre review just because you've never liked an RTS -- you grade it mainly based on its execution.

Second, it seems to me JRPGs are getting the stuffing beaten out of them by reviewers this generation. Again, I don't know whether FFXIII is an incredibly polished game (it may just be the graphics) but reviewing something based on the direction you think games should go in or based on the type of games you prefer and want to see more of is not something that video game reviews have done very much in the past. If it becomes more standard to do so, reviews may behave very differently in the future. For example, if I were to honestly review first person shooters on consoles, based on the amount of enjoyment I get out of them, most would average around a four or five, with a few going up as high as seven. Again, I'm not saying that's what's going on with FFXIII, but if it is a very polished and well-executed game I think there will be a pretty clear trend of extremely polished JRPGs getting review scores that rank them next to cheap movie game tie-ins and shovelware, and if that's the case, the fanbase for JRPGs needs to start making some (fucking) noise.

But there's a difference between polished and fun, and that distinction seems to be forgotten. A game can be very very polished and still at it's core lack a high level of entertainment or enjoyment.

The review seems to center on the reviewer's belief that essentially, the first half of the game is BORING. And he needs to review based on what people as a whole, not just JRPG fans, would like and believe. Just because a few million people would not find it boring, doesn't mean the other ~50 million gamers won't, and that's important to think about to when reviewing. He can't just cater to the JRPG fans, he has to review it as a gamer. After reading the review, it looks like he does that.

It's my hope that he isn't reviewing it for all the people who aren't going to play the game, just as people didn't review Halo and Call of Duty for all the Moms who bought Wii Fit.

 

If that is the case, all I can say to those who think this is a good idea is, enjoy the day when your favorite kind of video game becomes the special project of reviewers to tell people stay away from, and the zeitgeist in the video game world turns so against what you enjoy that you worry about whether or not you'll still be playing games at all in a few years.

 

    I'm actually not reading the review because I want to avoid spoilers and having to think about a bunch of other people's opinions when I'm playing the game, so take my worries with a grain of salt.  I'm just voicing what I think I may be talking about after I play the game, assuming I like it.

That's a good point, and I didn't mean to suggest a reviewer should review for every gamer in mind, but I guess I did suggest that -.-

But, I think he looked at it from the perspective of ALL gamers that would even think of trying it, so it might not include the Wii Fit moms, but it could include the ME2 fans. And he seems to comment on the pacing of the game with that in mind.

There are no spoilers really, but essentially, the main thing I read and disliked was a mention of a SLOW progression curve for the battle system. He mentioned that the game would introduce a gameplay mechanic, and then you would need to spam it for a bunch of fights, then a new mechanic, spam that, etc. I personally prefer, give me everything or mostly everything at once, and maybe make some things more relevant at certain times, but don't baby me into it. It's kind of condescending and patronizing like the game would be telling me "No really, you can't handle this, take it slow".

Again, I really have no idea -- the slow progression and endless tutorials do really bother me in games nowadays, unless they're done well.  JRPGs actually have a tradition of building really carefully by introducing new abilities to the player level by level and occasionally through the story's progression, but doing it in a way where the game just seems like it's getting more and more fun.  FFXIII could have dropped the ball on this.  FFXII certainly did to some extent, with gambits.

 

   As far as what perspective he's reviewing it from, I really hope he's not doing a review from the perspective of someone who loves Mass Effect 2.  Imagine a world in which Mass Effect 2 got half its reviews from the perspective of anime-loving fourteen year olds hungry for bright colors and highly unlikely leaps in the narrative.  Critical opinion would be mixed, people wouldn't know what a homerun it is for most WRPG fans.

 



 

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Wagram said:
lestatdark said:
Well, it was kinda expected, plus their review isn't that bad, just that the linearity let them down big time.

Plus, they gave Dragon Age a 5 too, so FFXIII = DA:O is really awesome in my book :P

Though I didn't like DA all that much. I still say it deserves an 8.

It was my favourite WRPG last year, took me back to the Baldur's Gate days :) 

And now, with all the mods and DLC that the game has gotten, it's really huge.

There will always be different opinions about games. No sense in only glossing over the ones that give good scores to the games that you like and dismissing the ones that give them low scores. FFXIII is one of my most awaited games this year and no review, good or bad, could deny me that XD

I guess that's the same for everyone who is waiting for this game ;) 



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lestatdark said:
Wagram said:
lestatdark said:
Well, it was kinda expected, plus their review isn't that bad, just that the linearity let them down big time.

Plus, they gave Dragon Age a 5 too, so FFXIII = DA:O is really awesome in my book :P

Though I didn't like DA all that much. I still say it deserves an 8.

It was my favourite WRPG last year, took me back to the Baldur's Gate days :) 

And now, with all the mods and DLC that the game has gotten, it's really huge.

There will always be different opinions about games. No sense in only glossing over the ones that give good scores to the games that you like and dismissing the ones that give them low scores. FFXIII is one of my most awaited games this year and no review, good or bad, could deny me that XD

I guess that's the same for everyone who is waiting for this game ;) 

I'm not really annoyed over the fact that it will get low scores. Every game will. I'm just annoyed on how hypocritical some reviewers are. They bash some games or genres for never evolving. But then give other games/genres the free pass.



Wagram said:

Oh it definitely will. I am dieing to play. The reasons being stated for negativity are things that I like, or things that will not annoy me. Reviewers told me that The Last Remnant was a piece of garbage. I played it, and it is my favorite JRPG this gen. So...i'll take my chances!

Enjoy it good sir. I myself will be endulging on a JRPG this month, in Pokemon Soul Silver. Definitely hyped for it too (I'm helping my brother, sister, my friend, and my friend's sister come up with their Pokemon teams. ) in preparation for the greatness that is Johto.

*Clinks goblet* Cheers!



perpride said:
Seraphic_Sixaxis said:
perpride said:
Seraphic_Sixaxis said:
I still don't know who the fuck these guys are, but this score seems more just then most.

said the man who gave White Knight Chronicles an 8.3...

wait...what? You haven't even played FFXIII...how could you possibly know what a just score for it is? dude you're starting to sound like MGS4 haters: "I've never played the game but I heard it's like an interactive movie so yehhh....Gears of War FTW!!!!"

I base my judgment on a certain scale that i expect from a FF game, and let me tell you this, i may not have played FFXIII (YET) but i predict when all is said an' done, my official review would most likely end up in the 5 to 7 ish range, i will not go easy on this game because it has alot to live up to the FF's gold standard name.

An' wth does my WKC review have to do with this?

 

Dude what you expect from the game and what direction the creators of Final Fantasy want to take the series can very well be two seperate things. If you're coming in expecting good old classical JRPG then you're obviously playing the wrong game. If there is one thing I have learned while playing this series, it's that Square likes to change the game up ALOT. That's a big part of what puts Final Fantasy a million steps ahead of every other JRPG. Look at the HUGE differences between Final Fantasy IX, Final Fantasy X, and then Final Fantasy XII...the last three main installments of the series. All have made major changes to the formula and introduced completely new things. For me, the changes made in those games defined those games and made them as amazing as they are. If anything, I'd be dissapointed if Square was going to stick with the same old formula for FFXIII, the first one to make its way to PS3/360.

True, im not saying change is bad, infact i welcome change, however... the changes made to FFXIII don't seem to be good ones, making the lead character a woman instead of a pretty boy really messes tradition up for me, its like FF9 all over again! that and the fact Battle system doesn't seem to have improved much to a point that it would justify a 5 year + waiting time. RoF is proof of that. 

When I was playing inFamous, I wasn't judging it based on what I'd like to do. I heard a lot of people dismiss the game alltogether because you couldn't get into cars. Tell me how stupid that sounds... as a reviewer you are supposed to rate what the game developer has tried to do - what they have and haven't accomplished while doing it. This is done regardless of what your personal tastes might be. You might have driving games all together, or dislike them as you put it yourself, but be tasked with reviewing Gran Turismo 5 or Forza 3. Are you going to give them a 6/10 because you personally don't enjoy driving games? If you're personal preference is rap music, as a critic, you should still be able to rate a death metal album without giving every death metal album a 2/10.

I realize this as well, other wise i wouldn't be signing up to be an' official Chartz reviewer, again i understand what your getting at it makes perfect sense however... 

I've heard people badmouth Mario because they hate the fact that it went 3D. I feel the same thing is happening with FFXIII. People are expecting it to be like the older games in the series. Why???? It's Final Fantasy for gods sake. And the reason I mention White Knight Chronicles is because I feel it is inferior to FFXIII in every way. And I've played both! You walk into an FFXIII thread and say 5/10...which is the lowest score the game has gotten and maybe ever will get, is a just score, and you've never even played the game. You're already predicting that you will give it a low score without even touching it! Well let me tell you this: of course you are going to give it a low score! when you go in expecting nothing, you will be dissapointed by anything even if it is the most revolutionary game ever.

You are wrong here, yes i won't lie, im expecting nothing but a mess from this game from a personal aspect, mainly because all thing things i WAS expecting ended up in in Versus XIII, which stays true to the title "FINAL FANTASY", XIII appears at first glance as some makeshift easy throw together game, infact it reminds me of Enchanted Arms. which isn't a bad thing since i enjoyed enchanted arms.

An' im predicting a 5 to 7 score from myself simply because, again all that i wanted FFXIII to be, from the main hero, to a world map, to a likable cast of characters, to world setting, to weapons... all ended up in Versus XIII... instead of XIII.

But like I said... this is their opinnion. I respectfully disagree. They are rating the game the same way I just described and personally I find that sad :(

To each his own, i started off with my first final fantasy being VII, i expected a spiritual successer to FFVII, and all we end up with is a final fantasy game thats trying "New" things the "Wrong" way, its final fantasy 12 all over again.

@psrock - you rock dude!

All of the neon purple is my opinion, do what you will with it, i humbly respect yours but i simply wont stand for a FF lower the bar instead of raising it.



Alic0004 said:
r505Matt said:
Alic0004 said:
r505Matt said:
Alic0004 said:
I know that Edge grades on a wider scale in general. I also haven't played the game, so I can't really offer any judgment. However, I will say this:

A game being polished is different from a game simply not having glaring or game-breaking bugs. The number of really polished video games we get every year is actually very small, and I do think that a highly polished game (say one that offers a smoother experience than 99% of the other games released every year) should indeed get above a mediocre or average score, whether or not the reviewer agrees with the design philosophies of the game. You don't give Starcraft a mediocre review just because you've never liked an RTS -- you grade it mainly based on its execution.

Second, it seems to me JRPGs are getting the stuffing beaten out of them by reviewers this generation. Again, I don't know whether FFXIII is an incredibly polished game (it may just be the graphics) but reviewing something based on the direction you think games should go in or based on the type of games you prefer and want to see more of is not something that video game reviews have done very much in the past. If it becomes more standard to do so, reviews may behave very differently in the future. For example, if I were to honestly review first person shooters on consoles, based on the amount of enjoyment I get out of them, most would average around a four or five, with a few going up as high as seven. Again, I'm not saying that's what's going on with FFXIII, but if it is a very polished and well-executed game I think there will be a pretty clear trend of extremely polished JRPGs getting review scores that rank them next to cheap movie game tie-ins and shovelware, and if that's the case, the fanbase for JRPGs needs to start making some (fucking) noise.

But there's a difference between polished and fun, and that distinction seems to be forgotten. A game can be very very polished and still at it's core lack a high level of entertainment or enjoyment.

The review seems to center on the reviewer's belief that essentially, the first half of the game is BORING. And he needs to review based on what people as a whole, not just JRPG fans, would like and believe. Just because a few million people would not find it boring, doesn't mean the other ~50 million gamers won't, and that's important to think about to when reviewing. He can't just cater to the JRPG fans, he has to review it as a gamer. After reading the review, it looks like he does that.

It's my hope that he isn't reviewing it for all the people who aren't going to play the game, just as people didn't review Halo and Call of Duty for all the Moms who bought Wii Fit.

 

If that is the case, all I can say to those who think this is a good idea is, enjoy the day when your favorite kind of video game becomes the special project of reviewers to tell people stay away from, and the zeitgeist in the video game world turns so against what you enjoy that you worry about whether or not you'll still be playing games at all in a few years.

 

    I'm actually not reading the review because I want to avoid spoilers and having to think about a bunch of other people's opinions when I'm playing the game, so take my worries with a grain of salt.  I'm just voicing what I think I may be talking about after I play the game, assuming I like it.

That's a good point, and I didn't mean to suggest a reviewer should review for every gamer in mind, but I guess I did suggest that -.-

But, I think he looked at it from the perspective of ALL gamers that would even think of trying it, so it might not include the Wii Fit moms, but it could include the ME2 fans. And he seems to comment on the pacing of the game with that in mind.

There are no spoilers really, but essentially, the main thing I read and disliked was a mention of a SLOW progression curve for the battle system. He mentioned that the game would introduce a gameplay mechanic, and then you would need to spam it for a bunch of fights, then a new mechanic, spam that, etc. I personally prefer, give me everything or mostly everything at once, and maybe make some things more relevant at certain times, but don't baby me into it. It's kind of condescending and patronizing like the game would be telling me "No really, you can't handle this, take it slow".

Again, I really have no idea -- the slow progression and endless tutorials do really bother me in games nowadays, unless they're done well.  JRPGs actually have a tradition of building really carefully by introducing new abilities to the player level by level and occasionally through the story's progression, but doing it in a way where the game just seems like it's getting more and more fun.  FFXIII could have dropped the ball on this.  FFXII certainly did to some extent, with gambits.

 

   As far as what perspective he's reviewing it from, I really hope he's not doing a review from the perspective of someone who loves Mass Effect 2.  Imagine a world in which Mass Effect 2 got half its reviews from the perspective of anime-loving fourteen year olds hungry for bright colors and highly unlikely leaps in the narrative.  Critical opinion would be mixed, people wouldn't know what a homerun it is for most WRPG fans.

 

Well to give a number, the reviewer said it takes about 20 or 25 hours to get through all the tutorial-ish stuff and get to "the real game". For his credit, he said he was good after you get to that point (to a degree, still some faults).

To the reviewing thing again, I wouldn't want someone to review from the perspective of a FF-lover, just like I wouldn't want Uncharted reviewed from the perspective an Uncharted lover. I'd want FF reviewed by an RPG fan, and Uncharted by an action game fan. Fans of the overal genre, not sub-genres, or specific series. ME2, being another RPG (and a great one), I think it's great if that's part of the perspective, as well as any other good (and bad I guess) RPG. That should all go into reviewing an RPG whether it's action, strategy, or anything. I think that's the fairest way to review something.