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Forums - General - Do you believe in angels/demons?

 

Do you believe in angels/demons?

Yes 22 26.51%
 
No 50 60.24%
 
I believe in Ron Howard 11 13.25%
 
Total:83
ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:
I mean... i'll put it this way to you Manus.

The ancient Christians and Hebrews lived next to water.

Due to water being necessary for life... they know how water works. They've had water in buckets and such... and know it lies as "flat" as possible.

So they know water can't be "curved."

How then do you think they reconciled a "flat" earth, with their ships going over the horizon... and coming back from the horizon?

What a huge assumption to make.  The Hebrews, just like the Babylonians that they got their idea of cosmology from, thought the Earth was flat and put it in their scriptures.  They didn't pick up on the circular shadows the Earth cast on the moon, the sea's horizons, the different angles of shadows that the sun cast on Earth, and so forth.  It would be a lot easier if they had, but they didn't.

No, they did... and your just ignoring all evidence.  Heck, you've already went from "They tought earth was a square!" to "They thought earth was a circle!"

Your gripping, reaching and running from logic.

Once again... what is your exlination... for their explination of ships going over the horizen?  Nothing... they just magically ignored it?  Nobody went "Hey that's weird... it looks like the boat is sinking... then rising out of the ocean.  Lets never ask the sailors if they actually went under water!  DHUR!"



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ManusJustus said:
bimmylee said:

Is that so? Show me where in the Bible it says this, because I guarantee that nowhere does it say "the Earth is flat."

Here's a simple read that should clear it up for you.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

I don't know why I try though, as I highly doubt you would even bother to read the link, choosing prideful ignorance over humiliating knowledge.

Ok, first off... Why the presumptuous disposition, ManusJustus? We're all friends here. No need to belittle me, thank you. This is benign debate.

The Bible indeed says the Earth is "firm", "fixed", and "immovable". Is it not mostly comprised of rock? Should I worry about North America rocking back and forth every time I step on it? And tell me... can you move it? These adjectives ≠ "the Earth is flat". As Kasz is saying, this is a huge reach.

"Ends of the earth." "Four corners of the earth." I still have trouble finding "the Earth is flat" anywhere in those figures of speech.

In reference to Isaiah describing the Earth as a circle, he had no other choice; there is no Hebrew word that means "sphere"!! To call the Earth a "circle" is the closest he could get. Hebrew is a very ambiguous language, my friend. Twisting the meaning of Bible verses to fit your position is not recommended.



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ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:
ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

Corners, do not have edges.  Your wrong... and your GRIPPING hard.

Radius- the distance from the centre to the edge of a circle, or a line drawn from the centre to the edge

http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/radius

OWNED

You have been embarassed by both the Bible and the Dictionary. 

Ends don't = Edges.  Your entire theory is flawed due to just basic obvious knowledge that ANYONE who lived near water would know.

Also, you should know it was first translated "4 corners of the earth".

See the above post for why your being thoroughly ridiculious.

Come Kasz, this is really embarassing.  Its painful for me to watch this, although it is enjoyable.

End: the part of an area that lies at the boundary b (1) : a point that marks the extent of something (2) : the point where something ceases to exist

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/end

Picture a circle drawn and colored in on a pavement.  Picture yourself in the center of that circle.  Now walk to the end of the circle, the boundary of the circle, the edge of the circle.

That's you know... the point.  A circle only has ONE edge.   It doesn't have EDGES.  For something to have Edges... it needs to have points.



Kasz216 said:

No, they did... and your just ignoring all evidence.  Heck, you've already went from "They tought earth was a square!" to "They thought earth was a circle!"

Your gripping, reaching and running from logic.

Once again... what is your exlination... for their explination of ships going over the horizen?  Nothing... they just magically ignored it?  Nobody went "Hey that's weird... it looks like the boat is sinking... then rising out of the ocean.  Lets never ask the sailors if they actually went under water!  DHUR!"

You are a complete idiot, and I'm not going to try and stop you from being one.  Read up on history if you want to know what ancient people believed and why they believed it.  Egypt and Mesopotamia, the Hebrews largest and most influential neighbors, thought the Eearth was flat, and suprise thats what the Hebrews though.  Also, it is horribly stupid to try to use today's hindsight to change what ancients believed when their own writings clearly state what they believed. 

I don't know  exactly why they thought the Earth was flat, I guess you'll have to ask a pharoah this question when you die and go to your imaginary wonderland, but it probably have something to do with not understanding gravity and thinking that you couldnt stand on the side a wall.



bimmylee said:

Ok, first off... Why the presumptuous disposition, ManusJustus? We're all friends here. No need to belittle me, thank you. This is benign debate.

The Bible indeed says the Earth is "firm", "fixed", and "immovable". Is it not mostly comprised of rock? Should I worry about North America rocking back and forth every time I step on it? And tell me... can you move it? These adjectives ≠ "the Earth is flat". As Kasz is saying, this is a huge reach.

"Ends of the earth." "Four corners of the earth." I still have trouble finding "the Earth is flat" anywhere in those figures of speech.

In reference to Isaiah describing the Earth as a circle, he had no other choice; there is no Hebrew word that means "sphere"!! To call the Earth a "circle" is the closest he could get. Hebrew is a very ambiguous language, my friend. Twisting the meaning of Bible verses to fit your position is not recommended.

No, the Earth is not mostly comprised of rock.  Most of the Earth is in fact molten and in a plastic form.

Just as you can walk off the end or edge of a building, you can walk off the end or edge of the Earth (or so they thought).

The Babylonians (this influencing the Hebrews) thought the Earth was a circle, with deep waters underneath and a firmament in the sky, the same thing that the Bible states.

Here are links to the Enuma Elish and Epic of Gilgamesh, the former being the predecessor of Genesis and the latter the predecessor of Noah's Flood.  If you want to read up on ancient Mesopotamian thought and compare it to the Bible, this is the best place to start.  Keep in mind that these stories pre-date the Bible by thousands of years, and that the Enuma Elish this is where Christians get the idea of the Battle between God and Satan.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/enuma.htm

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/

I will warn you, though, that they are difficult reads.  It may be from its literal translation, the lack of ancient writing skills, or a combination of both.



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Yeah, and for a while history said that mideviel people thought the earth was flat too.

They didn't. Pythagoras wasn't the first who thought the world was round... he was the first to PROVE it via math.

Anyone with the logical processes of a 10 year old would know, by looking at ships go over the horizon that the world wasn't flat.

I've also read both of the things you've suggested I should read before.  I'm actually VERY good when it comes to history.  You're confusing the figurative with the literal.



ManusJustus said:
bimmylee said:

Ok, first off... Why the presumptuous disposition, ManusJustus? We're all friends here. No need to belittle me, thank you. This is benign debate.

The Bible indeed says the Earth is "firm", "fixed", and "immovable". Is it not mostly comprised of rock? Should I worry about North America rocking back and forth every time I step on it? And tell me... can you move it? These adjectives ≠ "the Earth is flat". As Kasz is saying, this is a huge reach.

"Ends of the earth." "Four corners of the earth." I still have trouble finding "the Earth is flat" anywhere in those figures of speech.

In reference to Isaiah describing the Earth as a circle, he had no other choice; there is no Hebrew word that means "sphere"!! To call the Earth a "circle" is the closest he could get. Hebrew is a very ambiguous language, my friend. Twisting the meaning of Bible verses to fit your position is not recommended.

No, the Earth is not mostly comprised of rock.  Most of the Earth is in fact molten and in a plastic form.

Just as you can walk off the end or edge of a building, you can walk off the end or edge of the Earth (or so they thought).

The Babylonians (this influencing the Hebrews) thought the Earth was a circle, with deep waters underneath and a firmament in the sky, the same thing that the Bible states.

Here are links to the Enuma Elish and Epic of Gilgamesh, the former being the predecessor of Genesis and the latter the predecessor of Noah's Flood.  If you want to read up on ancient Mesopotamian thought and compare it to the Bible, this is the best place to start.  Keep in mind that these stories pre-date the Bible by thousands of years, and that the Enuma Elish this is where Christians get the idea of the Battle between God and Satan.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/enuma.htm

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/

I will warn you, though, that they are difficult reads.  It may be from its literal translation, the lack of ancient writing skills, or a combination of both.

Yes, most of the Earth is fact molten... molten rock, that is.

Isaiah is a prophetic book. This means that it is full of imagery, intended to be visualized by the reader as from the perspective of a person standing on Earth and looking into the horizon/sky. If you are standing on Earth and reading Isaiah, the imagery makes sense. (The "four corners" are the cardinal directions around you. The dome-like picture you posted above resembles what the Earth looks like when a person looks around himself at it; it would appear to be "tent"-like in nature from human observation.) And again, "circle" ≠ "flat". "Circle" is meant to mean "sphere" in that context.

I've read both of those Babylonian texts in various classes during college, so I am familiar with them. While it is certainly popular to claim that the subject matter of Genesis was derived from such Babylonian texts, it is not true whatsoever; the pagan Babylonian stories were bastardizations of what had actually happened; a Hebrew named Moses was then brought in to write five books would set the record straight for all time.



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