Is there a source to your information? Particularly on PS3 20g loss @ $320 while the loss @ 60g is $247, again I am still not convinced changing the hdd have such large effect on the income margin. I would be entirely 'inform' if i look at the 'facts' myself tho.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2006/11/isupply_ps3_com/

http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=22393

In the second article, it says that as of dec 14th 2009, the 120GB costs Sony about 336$ to make. The 120GB ps3 goes for 299$ retail.

"while Toshiba's 120GB HDD is next at $38"

On the Pricewatch link I gave you, it shows 120GB HDDs as 28$. Those drives are lower quality than the Toshiba ones, however, a retail toshiba 120GB internal costs about 39$ at this point in time. However, in bulk, those hard drives probably cost 30$ or less now compared to 3 months ago. Now the jump to 250GB, as shown on the pricewatch website, is roughly 12$. So, given the costs of then compared to now, and an upgrade, the 250GB ps3 probably only costs 12$ (or less, based on devaluation and lower pricing ratio) more to make than the 120GB. However, the 250GB ps3 costs 350$, so, they are roughly (very roughly) making ~38$ more on the 250GB ps3 than the 120, which is about a 12% increase or more.

Also, I wanted to ask you something. You argue like you've done it before...but the fact you haven't heard about what ps3s costs or even understand how negligible the price difference between HD storage is, is very strange. Like, you seem to have the air of someone who is smart, but you're not understanding some very basic concepts (in my opinion). Are you trolling me? If not, what websites are you usually on where you debate these kinds of thigns?

I don't think you understand my position. I know that there is an increase income margin between 120g and 250g but what you and Jarrod is suggesting is that they losing way more than $18/console on the 120gb and they are making a large profit for 250gb (to average that out to 6cent/dollar loss on console in general).. mutiply that by 2 million console (1 million 120gb and 1 million 250gb).. you are suggesting that they lose >18million dollars on 120gb but they get >$17.88 million for 250gb? If this was the case, Sony can just manipulate the console distribution ratio (sell 0.5million 120gb and 1.5million 250gb) to make an overall profit/dollar but instead they decided to stick with 6cent/dollar loss/console?

I understand they get a higher income margin with each skus, but the increase in margin is usually small, it is usually a gradual shift, not a large jump from loss to profit.

Also, you need understand the difference between convincing and understanding. Just because I am not convinced , doesn't mean I don't understand your dispostion. Eg. US understand that global warming is a problem, but they are not convinced that we are experiencing global warming.

Finally, I didn't leave. I just decided to turn in for the night; I don't really sit in front of the forum and refresh every minute.

Haven't you heard of the 120gb ps3 shortage recently? Everybody has been talking about it for weeks. On average, the 250g has more in stock than the 120g. If that isn't exactly what you just said, I don't know what is. That seems to be the final burden of proof you are looking for.

And yes, for the last time, the 250g costs them approx 10$ more to make, but they sell it for 50$ more. That's a 40$ difference, which is close to a 15% increase.

You are also forgetting what I said above about the currency rates. Right now, the yen is worth more than most money, but the price of the consoles don't differ that much across the world. So, on top of making profit on some and loss on other skus, in some regions they make money on both and in other regions they lose money on both. What you're asking is very complicated, and I don't see the reward in convincing you, especially when it has taken me so much effort and fact presentation already, on this subject alone.

And no, you don't have to go on clicking refresh every minute. You can easily post something and then check back half an hour later, an hour later, 2, 3..etc. So far, it's been an average of you checking once every twenty-four hours (for me at least). So I'd say you are nowhere near in danger of hitting refresh every minute.

Currency shouldn't matter. If they are making a loss in UAE, then ship less consoles to UAE and more to 'profitable' countries like US where there is an excess demand.

USA ISN'T a profitable country for hardware. The currency rate means that Japan loses 10 cents for every dollar. 30$ loss on a 120g, just for what the money is actually worth. That is on top of the loss they already take for the cost of hardware. Shipping more consoles to a country doesn't increase the number of buyers for the console or the number of consoles sold. Yes there is excess demand on the 120g in the US, but there are still plenty of 250g ps3s lying around. Which proves once again that the concept of demand is beyond you. Price has an impact on how many people buy a console, and phasing out the cheaper console makes that group of consumers smaller, which, is idiotic if you make a huge profit on the games.

What puzzles me and source of my skepticism to your position is that if they can technically be making a profit right now, why are they sticking to a 6cent loss/dollar. My explanation is that the COP of both SKU is currently still exceeding the price of sale.

Your explanation means that the 250g costs at least 350.01$ to make, right? That would be a loss. Just follow my logic for a moment. The difference between HDD costs is barely 8$ on a mass production scale. That would mean the ps3 120g would have to cost Sony 342.01$ But the 120g costed 336 in loss as of 6 months ago. Do you think the cost has actually gone up? What you don't understand is that there isn't a 1:1 distribution of the console sales. There are more 120s sold than 250s. That is the basis of demand. THe cheaper version of a product sells more. Now, if, out of 4 sales, 3 are 120s, then they are losing, say, 26$+26+26+n. The 6 cents per dollar on those consoles comes out to 75$. Set the equation to 0 and you get 26+26+26+n=75.....78+n=75....n, being the profit on a 250g console, we get 3$. This is a simple explanation for you.

Then, you have to take into account that roughly 45% of ps3s sold lose 10+cents on the dollar. In england and Euro countries they make about 20 cents on the dollar.

If you can be making a profit, why don't you make a profit?

They are making a profit, as of last quarter.

In any case, like you said, it is complicated, and I don't think we can come up with a resolution unless we see an updated Bill of Order on both SKUs.

Sure then. I understand that you need definitive proof. I'm the same way. When I take a shower, I will refuse to believe the water is hot until i get a thermometer in there.

I am not sure what kind of 'reward' you were expecting in any topic debates but for what it's worth, my opinon did shift a bit during this discussion.

The reward is helping you understand the concept. But, from here on out, I'm just going to wait for someone else to explain it to you, or for official numbers to come out.

Finally, my time invested on a forum is proportional to the number of topics I participate. For vgchartz, I only posted on this thread, which only prompts me to check back once in a while.. on other forums, I participate in mutiple debates so I check back more often on those.