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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How do you feel about the (radical) changes in Metroid:Other M?

Khuutra on 25 February 2010
Mr Khan said:

Auto-aim i'm fine with, as long as i have the ability to switch my targets at will (that way i don't wind up stuck focusing on this one enemy i don't care about, but unable to shoot anything else until i deal with it). The lack of energy pickups i'm not entirely comfortable with, though. It seems like its halfway to the Halo style of health regeneration.

The thing is that you can't regenerate more than a single tank with the outlined metho. It soundsl ike the only way to actually heal is to find a savep oint. That makes me excited, as a guy who loves tension!



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dampowell on 25 February 2010

I think all these changes to metroid can be great. First, I think over the course of the game you will see Samus grow. There is a reason why Samus is a loner, if you read the manga Samus loses nearly everyone that is close to her apart from MAYBE Adam Malkovic. This is what makes her the last protector! Samus has always fit in oddly with her surroundings. She is not fully HUMAN as she has added Chozo DNA which enables her to handle the Varia Suit in the first place. All of this exposition is not a bad thing for the Metroid Series, matter of fact Metroid has one of the most rich and Lore driven universes that is TOTALLY unexplored.

I do however which the game was controlled with the wii remote and nunchuck combo so that you could both move on a 2d and 3d plane. I do not think the whole game will play as simply as the demo seemed. Team Ninja is known for doing progressively more with your character as the game wears on, more so that is METROID's creed. Adam Malkovic won't be giving orders throughout the entire game, and i do think the weapon system is more of the stacking variety.



Check out my Fan-Made Metroid Remix trailer HERE!


theARTIST0017 on 25 February 2010
Khuutra said:
I don't imagine that healing will be THAT simple - though it's not quite so bad to be able to heal outside of combat.

It just means that combat can be balanced to be harder now.

Hrm.

Anyway. This isn't as big a change as Metroid Prime had, but I'm still excited exactly because it looks so different. Re-inventing Metroid is kind of what I was hoping for.

Those are my thoughts too. I actually like some of the changes. I don't know necessarily if it was for the better of the franchise becaue, searching for items like missle expansions and health bars were fun, but if you're going to change the game, THEN YOU MIGHT AS WELL CHANGE THE GAME you know what I'm saying?

 



NINTENDO

nintendo forever . . .

Khuutra on 25 February 2010
theARTIST0017 said:
Khuutra said:
I don't imagine that healing will be THAT simple - though it's not quite so bad to be able to heal outside of combat.

It just means that combat can be balanced to be harder now.

Hrm.

Anyway. This isn't as big a change as Metroid Prime had, but I'm still excited exactly because it looks so different. Re-inventing Metroid is kind of what I was hoping for.

Those are my thoughts too. I actually like some of the changes. I don't know necessarily if it was for the better of the franchise becaue, searching for items like missle expansions and health bars were fun, but if you're going to change the game, THEN YOU MIGHT AS WELL CHANGE THE GAME you know what I'm saying?

You're still going to have to search for missile expansions and health upgrades.



Mr Khan on 25 February 2010
dampowell said:
I think all these changes to metroid can be great. First, I think over the course of the game you will see Samus grow. There is a reason why Samus is a loner, if you read the manga Samus loses nearly everyone that is close to her apart from MAYBE Adam Malkovic. This is what makes her the last protector! Samus has always fit in oddly with her surroundings. She is not fully HUMAN as she has added Chozo DNA which enables her to handle the Varia Suit in the first place. All of this exposition is not a bad thing for the Metroid Series, matter of fact Metroid has one of the most rich and Lore driven universes that is TOTALLY unexplored.

I do however which the game was controlled with the wii remote and nunchuck combo so that you could both move on a 2d and 3d plane. I do not think the whole game will play as simply as the demo seemed. Team Ninja is known for doing progressively more with your character as the game wears on, more so that is METROID's creed. Adam Malkovic won't be giving orders throughout the entire game, and i do think the weapon system is more of the stacking variety.

Wait...

 

Is it your commander who is giving orders, or Adam himself? I thought the story went that Adam died well before the events of Metroid 1...



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Games4Fun on 25 February 2010
LordTheNightKnight said:
Games4Fun said:

 

LordTheNightKnight said:
"So a character being a woman means they need to have a steamy romance scene?"

But give the guys some shirtless scenes and ass shots just to be fair

That is all to say about your part lordthenightknight

Honestly, it's so oogling at beautiful ladies won't be a double standard.

Heh I think that would ruin the um pew pew die momentum. O well ./grabs popcorn Its still has Samus



Demotruk on 25 February 2010
Khuutra said:
Demotruk said:
Khuutra said:
You're not actually pointing out any core Metroid values that are hurt by the inclusion of somewhat lengthy introductory cutscenes (of which Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion also had, for the time).

The flow of the game. That's what will be hurt by cut scenes, assuming they're skippable. If they're not skippable, then it's much worse.

 

As for Super Metroid and Fusion, if you look at the sales of the series over time, the ones that had the least narrative elements were the most successful (Metroid, Metroid 2 and Metroid Prime). Fusion did outdo Super Metroid, but it's follow up sold so bad that it doesn't seem Fusion was well received by those who bought it.

The reason I included the "introductory" qualifier is that we have no idea as to whether or not the cutscenes will hold to that length throughout the game, or whether they would be a more standard Metroid-sized affair (which at this point is basically defined by the Primes). There is no indication as to whether or not this will affect the game's pacing in the long term.

Your second paragraph is faulty on two points: firstly, you're grouping Metroid 2 with the higher tier rather than the lower tier, even though it's only 200k away from the next-lowest selling game but it's like 700k away from Metroid. Metroid had the advantage of being totally unique at the time and Metroid Prime enjoyed not only a radical change to the series appealing to an underserved demographic on the Gamecube, but also benefited from aggressive bundling in North America during the first six months of its release. I should know: I was one of the people for whom Prime was their first Metroid!

Secondly, Metroid Prime had far more narrative, both mandatory and not, than did Super Metroid - you did more reading just finding the Chozo keys in Metroid Prime than you did during the entirety of Super Metroid or even Metroid Zero Mission, and the Chozo keys were not the only parts of the game that you had to read in order to progress.

Lastly, Zero Mission was not a follow-up to Metroid Fusion, it was a well-publicized remake of the original Metroid and it was known as such at the time. Its sales are its own - especially since it was hailed as being closer to Super Metroid than Fusion was. Also: we have no sales data on Zero Mission!

Again, I don't think this is an argument.

I don't consider optional background story to be narrative. Narrative is direction in a story, someone telling you something particular and expecting you to listen/read. There was nothing in Metroid Prime that you had to read beyond game instructions. There were mandatory things to scan (that functioned as buttons/keys), but you could just let go of the button immediately and not have to read anything you're not interested in, that was the point of the design.

Fine, I'm sure you can find alternative answers for why the best selling games happen to be the ones with the least narrative, but the point remains that the ones that add narrative underperformed in comparison. And yes we have sales data on Zero Mission, this isn't the only site you can find sales on:

 

"Metroid: Zero Mission was ranked the best-selling Game Boy Advance game in the United States in its debut month of February 2004, selling 151,807 units, and it was the 3rd best-selling game across all video game systems in that month.[23] In May 2004, the game's sales dropped to 7th among Game Boy Advance games, with 31,619 copies sold and $938,681 in revenue.[24] By February 2005, the game had sold over 439,000 units in the United States and 69,000 in Japan.[25] The game was ranked the 46th best game for any Nintendo system in Nintendo Power's Top 200 Games list.[26] Metroid: Zero Mission was voted IGN's Game Boy Advance Game of the Month for February 2004,[27] and the website's staff picked the game as both the Best Game Boy Adventure Game of 2004,[28] and the 9th Best Game Boy Advance Game.[29] Electronic Gaming Monthly also picked it as the Best Handheld Game of 2004.[30] Official Nintendo Magazine ranked the game 94th in a list of the best Nintendo games.[31]"



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

Demotruk on 25 February 2010
Khuutra said:
Demotruk said:
Prime sold less with 2, the one that added a more linear structure and more narrative. It sold more again in 3, but much less than the first Metroid Prime.

This is a radical oversimplification of the factors that lead to Metroid Prime being an uncharacteristic success for the series whereas its followups were more in keeping with the series norm.

I didn't say that a lack of narrative was the reason for Metroid Prime's success. My argument doesn't have to rely on that. It's still a fact that the best selling Metroid games are the ones with the least narrative.



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

Kennyheart on 25 February 2010

This gots me worryed alot there changing stuff that i loves about metroid they changing the core assepcts.



Khuutra on 25 February 2010
Demotruk said:
Khuutra said:

The reason I included the "introductory" qualifier is that we have no idea as to whether or not the cutscenes will hold to that length throughout the game, or whether they would be a more standard Metroid-sized affair (which at this point is basically defined by the Primes). There is no indication as to whether or not this will affect the game's pacing in the long term.

Your second paragraph is faulty on two points: firstly, you're grouping Metroid 2 with the higher tier rather than the lower tier, even though it's only 200k away from the next-lowest selling game but it's like 700k away from Metroid. Metroid had the advantage of being totally unique at the time and Metroid Prime enjoyed not only a radical change to the series appealing to an underserved demographic on the Gamecube, but also benefited from aggressive bundling in North America during the first six months of its release. I should know: I was one of the people for whom Prime was their first Metroid!

Secondly, Metroid Prime had far more narrative, both mandatory and not, than did Super Metroid - you did more reading just finding the Chozo keys in Metroid Prime than you did during the entirety of Super Metroid or even Metroid Zero Mission, and the Chozo keys were not the only parts of the game that you had to read in order to progress.

Lastly, Zero Mission was not a follow-up to Metroid Fusion, it was a well-publicized remake of the original Metroid and it was known as such at the time. Its sales are its own - especially since it was hailed as being closer to Super Metroid than Fusion was. Also: we have no sales data on Zero Mission!

Again, I don't think this is an argument.

I don't consider optional background story to be narrative. Narrative is direction in a story, someone telling you something particular and expecting you to listen/read. There was nothing in Metroid Prime that you had to read beyond game instructions. There were mandatory things to scan (that functioned as buttons/keys), but you could just let go of the button immediately and not have to read anything you're not interested in, that was the point of the design.

Fine, I'm sure you can find alternative answers for why the best selling games happen to be the ones with the least narrative, but the point remains that the ones that add narrative underperformed in comparison. And yes we have sales data on Zero Mission, this isn't the only site you can find sales on:

[snip]

Thank you for the pointer on Metroid Zero Mission, I had no idea concerning its sales.

Again: my point remains the same, not only in that your grouping of the games is fallacious but also in that the correlation to which you refer does not really exist. Metroid 2 had a fair bit more story than did the original, roughly in keeping with the trend that lead to Super Metroid (which is probably why it sold a comparable amount).

And you can say what you like about Metroid Prime, but hte game had a rather tremendous amount of reading jsut oto get through - lik I said, the Chozo keys alone, much less all the necessary boss battle information (I could be wrong, but I think the Parasite Queen wouldn't be auto-targeted in the mouth unless you scanned her first). Its narrative explanation was far larger than that in Super Metroid, or in fact any 2-D Metroid except for Fusion.

Again, you are drawing a correlation that is only kinda-sorta there and is refuted under scrutiny.

And you're not addressing the other, more relevant points, like whether or not the opening is indicative of the pacing we can expect later on in the game. I imagine that, at worst, it will be like Fusion - and probably quite a bit better, would be my expectation.