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Forums - Gaming - EA's Strategy to Counter Used Games Sales

Galaki on 27 February 2010
Kasz216 said:

The ironic part is I'm arguing purely from the economical models standpoint that any economist would tell you about video games because I personally don't care about resale value... and protecting users rights... even when the rights are ones I'm pretty much never going to be effected by.

I never actually resell games.

Nor do i particularly buy games used that i have a great interest in. The games I'm interested in I buy new. I reserve used games for the "token" games that update niches i feel i need. Like college basketball games that I can get for like 5 dollars... because I don't care about the characters whose real names can't even be used.

Unlike most people in this thread i'm not trying to defend a favored developer or hate on a hated publisher.

I, too, buy only new games and keep all of them, even if I only play once.

I just don't condone them stepping over consumers rights. I simply vote by not buying at all, even though, it does not affect me now.

 

You make people buy your stuff by adding value, not other way around. Think getting a plushy of a character in the game you are buying. That's added value.



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Garnett on 27 February 2010
Akvod said:
Garnett said:
Akvod said:
Garnett said:
Akvod said:
Garnett said:


 

 

Its on the disc but its not in the game, somethings wrong with that. 

And are you willing to make a bet with me?

Kotaku is fucking interpreting stuff like conquest mode on Arica Harbor (which is avaiable in Rush mode) as being on the disc already. Fine, that's a shaky ground.

 

But there are definetly entirely NEW maps in the DLC, and those cannot be on the disc.

And I'm simply making my argument on the fact that it would be a misnomer to use the word DOWNLOADABLE content for things on the disc. It is purely illogical.

Would you like to make a bet then?

I have my last class today now. Write down the stakes while I'm gone, and I'll see if they're reasonable or unreasonable.

Basically If the download size for the maps are 10 mbs or less  than i win the bet.

 

If its 11mbs or more than you win. 

 

Loser gets banned for a week. Fair?

 

 

Err? Wut? I thought your argument was that the content were on the disc, not about how big of a size they are.

 

My conditions:

Subject is 360/PS3

If the DLC is not on the disc, and is in fact downloaded, I, Akvod, win.

If the above statement is false, you, Garnett win.

The only source that will be accepted is EA itself, or testing the claim when the game comes out. Not news sources like Kotaku.

If EA makes a clear statement that is proven to be a blatant lie, the bet is to be canceled (for example, if EA itself reports that "A is true", and in fact the truth that A is false is brought to light, then the bet is canceled).

The loser will be forced to have an sig of the winner's chosing for the entire month of March, 2010. The sig must be screened by a mod/admin/etc first. Nothing offensive or personal (for example, "Akvod sucks" is a no-no)

 

Accept/Decline?

If the maps are on the disc then the download will be less than 10 mbs, as it will be a unlock code used to unlock the maps on the disc, if its more than 11 mbs then you really are downloading the maps, hence there not on the disc.

 

There is no way to tell if the maps are on the disc until we see how big the DLC size.

 

Therefore if its more than 11mbs then you win and i get banned for a week

If its less than 10 mbs then i win and you get banned.

 

And just a 1 week ban, im not giving up my sig or anything like that. 

I'm a bit wary about the DL size. I don't want to lose based on technicalities (files being less than 10mb, but still being actual maps).

 

*sigh* you know what, I was gonna try to ninja you, but I don't care:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-XD8lJUv8g&feature=player_embedded

In the Day 1 Map Pack trailer get a preview of two brand new maps available to download at launch.

With dense snow-covered forest restricting vehicle use Nelson Bay will put your infantry combat skills to the test via the Rush game mode whilst Laguna Alta features the classic Conquest mode in a challenging woodland environment where effective use of ATV and infantry-fighting-vehicles will be the key to military supremacy.

Battlefield: Bad Company 2 launches on March 2nd in North America, March 4th in Europe and March 5th in the UK & Ireland.

 

The only outcome was that A, EA made a blatant lie, B, I'm right.

 

No bet, no ban for you.

And im saying the maps are on the disc, the only thing your downloading are the unlock keys.

 

2 maps are more than 10mbs right? I know gears map packs are like 300 mbs and Halos are around the same. So if you did download the maps then it would be more than 11mbs.

 

So the out come could be 

A. You download the unlock key and unlock the maps on the disc.

B. You download the maps are really being downloaded.

 



*Remember when the world was supposed to end on May 21st, 2011? Well click here to see our short parody video of it [not]ending*

Hawk on 27 February 2010
Kasz216 said:
KylieDog said:

This is why it is stupid to compare the video game market to others.

 

Used book market?  Barely exists, most books are so cheap they are better off throwing away then going to the effort of re-selling.  CDs?  I presume you mean music.  The second hand market again isn't as big as the used games market due to low CD entry price, music is also sold digitally.  In fact digital sales are bigger than CDs and no used MP3 market I am afraid. 

 

Video games are 99% sold at retail for console games, used sales hurt the market a lot more than music.

 

Your examples are stupid, if you are not sure you like a game just don't use the code until you are sure.  Hell, even rent a game if you're unsure, is what people been doing for the last 20 years.

You act as if Itunes was always around.

Back before Mp3's became big the used CD market was MUCH larger then the Used game market.   Low CD price is exactly why the used game market would be MORE important to new sales.

It's clear your diagreement with the general point is your general lack of understanding the used/new dynamic.

 

Kasz216, so, the used CD market was larger before, than it is now?  So you do not see a present day smaller used market has not hurt the industry?



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

Hawk on 27 February 2010
JaggedSac said:
Kasz216 said:

Untrue.  Afterall it works that way with books, where the words stay the same and CDs... which sound the same.

To think otherwise is to not understand the basic value of the used market to new markets... there are MANY more effects than the simple one you mentioned.

 

For example, Say i'm not sure I want to buy this game that is 60 dollars... however I know if I don't like it... I can return it for 30.


Now instead of wasting 60 dollars i'm only wasting 30... because I can resell the game.

Now instead say because of this content's exclusion I can only sell it back for 15 or 20.  My risk is now 35-40 dollars.  Perhaps this is too big of a risk.

 

Or in general I don't think videogames are worth 60 dollars, but I can beat the game in a week and get back 30... because once I beat a game generally i'm never going to back to play it again... by making less of the initial expierence buyable you are taking away value in my resale.

I must say, this person would be better off renting games.  30 bucks is two months at GameFly, two months to finish the game with no late fees.  If they are such smart consumers, perhaps they should examine more of their options.

Besides, like Kylie pointed out.  If you are going to buy a game, knowing you will turn around and resell it in a week, don't use the code.  Then, you keep the resale value higher.  That arguement does not work Kasz216.



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

Hawk on 27 February 2010
Kasz216 said:
JaggedSac said:
Kasz216 said:

Untrue.  Afterall it works that way with books, where the words stay the same and CDs... which sound the same.

To think otherwise is to not understand the basic value of the used market to new markets... there are MANY more effects than the simple one you mentioned.

 

For example, Say i'm not sure I want to buy this game that is 60 dollars... however I know if I don't like it... I can return it for 30.


Now instead of wasting 60 dollars i'm only wasting 30... because I can resell the game.

Now instead say because of this content's exclusion I can only sell it back for 15 or 20.  My risk is now 35-40 dollars.  Perhaps this is too big of a risk.

 

Or in general I don't think videogames are worth 60 dollars, but I can beat the game in a week and get back 30... because once I beat a game generally i'm never going to back to play it again... by making less of the initial expierence buyable you are taking away value in my resale.

I must say, this person would be better off renting games.  30 bucks is two months at GameFly, two months to finish the game with no late fees.  If they are such smart consumers, perhaps they should examine more of their options.

Which is the market Gamefly tries to tap into, but doesn't that succesfully. If they did there wouldn't be much of used game market at all.

So because Gamefly has not successfully reached a large number of people, that completely invalidates it as a perfectly good alternative to buying games just to resell them a short time later?



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

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Hawk on 27 February 2010
Malachi said:
Kasz216 said:
Malachi said:

Kasz, the reason why most of the moron on this thread that see it as a good thing look at it by thinking about the buyer of used game, not the seller. What they fail to see(most likely due to advanced mental retardation) is that by screwing the used game market they are actually screwing the seller(the consumer who buy new) not the buyer of used game -Afterall if there is no used game market that market has no consumer so if you kill that market which consumer is the most hurt? The nonexistent one or the one who actually buy the game new?- by reduction the value of what he buy. 

It is say that a car lose almost half it's value the moment you take it out of the dealer parking lot, in the same way that game is going to lose 15$ of it's value the moment the buyer put it in and unlock that content. Again, in this scenerio, which one is the most hurt? The actual consumer or the hypothetical used buyer?

That why no other "industry" is dumb enough to get rid of the used market, because the people hurt the most by its dead are the one who actually buy and pay full price for your product. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Calling people names is harsh... but it very much does reduce the value to the new buyer... not add it when it's day one stuff. (Or anything nearby that date that obviously could of just been put on the disc fairly easily.

Some people prefer to call dumb kid "special", I don't.

Whatever the content was supposed to be there or not doesn't matter, what matter is if it hurt the resell value of the product then your are hurting the orginal buyer, your consumers, the one that keep you in business and then they gonna decide to not be your consumers anymore and you gonna find yourself having to lay off another third of your workforce.

What I think you and Kasz216 are ignoring is that the used game buyers will not simply drop off the planet.  As Kasz was saying in his post:

"Between a 60 dollar game and a 55 dollar used game... 5 dollars isn't much for the average person."

This of course cannot be proved, but I believe more used game buyers would buy new and become EA customers than original EA customers would be lost.



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

Seraphic_Sixaxis on 27 February 2010

Ah smart move on EA's part. however...



Hawk on 27 February 2010
Kasz216 said:
JaggedSac said:
Kasz216 said:
JaggedSac said:
Kasz216 said:
JaggedSac said:

But we aren't talking about what the used game is being sold for, we are talking resale value.  People being secure that they are going to be able to get money back from their purchase of a game.  That was the main points of the arguments in this thread.  For ME2, 2 months after release, someone can trade the game into Amazon for $40.  ME2 contains the same DLC method as BF:BC2.  So it would appear, based on this real world example, that this DLC method will not adversely affect trade in value.  Quality of game will obviously have more of an effect, as more people trade in the game, the value of the trade in diminishes.

Oh, the Amazon trade in value.  You totally switched gears on me there then.

 

ME2 doesn't contain the same DLC method as BF:BC2.  The ME2 giveaway was more localized... specifically to preoroders.

As mentioned above... the effect would be lessened. 

Amazon Trade in value probably would be higher though.  Probably 45 if it wasn't for the code.

No, it is the exact same.  Code comes in the box of every new copy.  So you think Amazon would give the customer $45 dollars for a game it sales new for $49.99?

Then why'd all the gamestop commericals tell you that you had to preorder the game to get the content?

Gamestop had some special preorder stuff.

But here is a site to look at for this - http://masseffect.bioware.com/info/cerberus/

 

"Included in each copy of Mass Effect 2, for both PC (digital and box) and X360, there is a Cerberus Network card with a unique single-use code. Login to the Cerberus Network in Mass Effect 2 and register your code to enlist! Once you are a member, Cerberus Network content is available to you at no extra charge."

Okay... If I didn't know this... how the hell is the general public going to know?

The effect will be there, but only once the general public catches on to this kind of stuff happening.

 

I'm thinking Gamestop may purposely advertise included content as pre-order only content.  I didn't pre-order ME2 and I got the Cerberus Network code.  And I got L4D2 a couple months after release and still got the 'pre-order only' baseball bat download.



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

Hawk on 27 February 2010
Onyxmeth said:

I'm fairly sure I made a good argument about EA's actions in regards to this, an original argument mind you, and it's gotten consistently ignored. Maybe everyone has me blocked on that program someone cooked up a while back. It's odd that at one point though, Kylie and Akvod were able to see what I was typing, or at least the portion they felt comfortable responding back to.

::chuckle::  Sorry Onyx.  As much as I like you, I for some reason have just completely looked over your posts in this thread.  If you wouldn't mind summarizing what you've said, I'd love to read it.  As opposed to weeding back through this thread.  You don't have to of course, but I do respect your views and am interested.  Sorry, heh.



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JaggedSac on 27 February 2010

Thread is still going strong huh?

I don't remember your point either Onyx, please recap?