ugh I'm sorry mate but pretty much most of the demos MS did for natal were failures.....heck even the earlier ones were admitted to be pre rendered demos.....Milo says hi

so far if you have followed the general news on Arc and what devs of game comapnys and journalists say about it after seeing it in action, you will see it has a more postive feedback so far...for Natal it is mostly "it WILL be amazing" ...

the fact that their live demo malfunction in the last E3 didn't exactly put up a good impression either

I honestly hope Natal does well....but I personally think Arc will blow it away...we will see who is right by E3 ;)

Thats like such a 100% strawman argument. If I thought everythings crap until proved otherwise then yeah I would say Natal is shit. However since I've not seen the real implementation of it I have to reserve judgement. Arc on the other hand was proved shit on first view. The motion pointer which is a significant component of the interface would be tiring to use thanks to the 1:1 interface. So whilst you can rest your hands with the Wiimote you don't get this opportunity with Arc. Since Arc is proved shit, Natal is unknown and neither proved to be crap or not then I have to go with Natal over the Arc for the time being. 

Nintendo shall always prevail but either they will both suck or just the Arc will suck because the Arc is just a bad knockoff of the Wiimote and takes whatever flaws the Wiimote has and prodigiously adds to them.

That is why these failures were in talk shows, late night shows, magazines, Forbes magazine, time magzine one of the innovations of the year, Heck even smallville included Natal. Do you think they do this with a failure? Let's be honest here.

That is why these failures were in talk shows, late night shows, magazines, Forbes magazine, time magzine one of the innovations of the year, Heck even smallville included Natal. Do you think they do this with a failure? Let's be honest here.

The type of input doesnt define the game. Heavy Rain or Wii Fit would still be innovative without motion control (Wii fit would be impossible tho, which proves my point about innovation in video game genre through a new input). Which is not the case for racers, shooters or sports game modded with motion control. Sincerely I can only think of Wii Fit as being a new type of game (but theres maybe more, I didnt played them all). Motion control by itself was a great innovation but didnt brought a lot of innovation in video-game. At least up until now.

If you want example of a light gun shooter which you could control, well theres one on PS2. It was release 6 years ago, resident evil dead aim, but even by that time it wasnt really innovative. Almost the same gameplay of other game but with different input.

Im talking of innovation bringing new game genre through a new control input and your talking of innovation solely through a new control input. The fact you listed Mario Kart Wii as being innovative really proves that. Your not wrong, its innovative in some way (a new control input-innovative), but its still the same game we were playing last gen (not innovative). Also, now that motion control is common its not innovative anymore to only add those controls. Bottom line we can agree on is, we need more games like Heavy Rain or Wii fit to expand gaming.

Nintendo, they are god and shall always prevail lol. Arc is just a bad knockoff, it is going to flop lol. Why dont you stop posting in the Sony forum? After all, its pretty obvious you dont like Sony. Am I posting in the Nintendo forum to talk shit about it? no!

Your getting this all wrong, the fact that wii motion controls was not precise enough for me, frustrated me, and as a result I do not play on the mini games, not when you can do a simple flick of the wrist and get a stike on bowling, it is just plain stupid, that is not would happen in real life, now for games like zelda, it's more fun admitedly.

Ps motion controls will be more precise so games like golf, fps, rpg, rts, etc can be even more now with this extra precision.

Wii controls are nothing more than to get intermediate users into gaming, as simple as that, ps motion controls are more advanced users, who require so much more than that, becuase we need a challenge!!

Heavy Rain isn't worth anything as far as innovation. If an earthquake happens and CNN doesn't cover it, the earthquake didn't happen. To be frank I played a few similar games way back when CDs came into vogue so really its just an evolution on those choose your own story movie games. What innovation exactly is there? A different spin on the same genres? A WRPG / FPS / Sports game? Or a JRPG / Exercise / Quiz show?

Innovation is just a word for people to slap onto tired game concepts in order to make them look new and fresh. The key point is that the Wiimote was innovative when it was released. No console maker had dared made a console with such an interface as the standard interface and its innovation that worked. Innovation which isn't copied isn't worth much as innovation which is. The fact that 100% of the industry is now following proves its real innovation and not some snarky gimmick.

Bottom line is we need games like Wii Fit to expand gaming, we don't need and have never needed little niche games which do nothing overall. If Heavy rain was wiped from history it wouldn't make much difference, but without games like Wii Fit, Mario Kart and Wii Sports gaming would be a very different picture.

I don't mean to get in the middle of all this, but I'm seriously amazed at all the people who keep saying stuff like the above. Have none of you heard of a little thing called Wii Motion Plus? It's 1:1. Yeah, the original Wii remote wasn't as precise. That's why Nintendo gave us Motion Plus.

How all you guys can keep going on about how PS3's motion controller will be superior and more precise is beyond me. Moreso because none of you all have ever played with it. Heck, there haven't even been any games shown, just some tech demos. You can't get more precise than 1:1. You think it's going to be 2:1 or something? So far, Sony's controller hasn't even had a Nunchuk-like attachment announced, effectively greatly limiting its use and appeal. That wouldn't really make it better than Wii's controls. So, tell me, how exactly is it going to be superior, apart from graphics? Because PR guys say so?

It's great if people are enthusiastic about something they like or look forward too, but don't go around spouting nonsensical comments without any shred of foundation or proof. Especially when simple facts contradict your statements.