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Forums - Gaming Discussion - DVD is increasingly showing a strain in providing HD content.

WilliamWatts said:
MikeB said:
WilliamWatts said:
No, lossless. Lossy compression of textures has a much higher ratio.

Sounds strange, why not do this compression in DX9 as well if it's lossless?

Because its not in spec. Textures are just xxx by xxx bitmaps. Very easy to compress those.

Not in the spec? Still sounds strange. Compression alogritms are actually pretty complex and my PC sports a DX9 capable graphics card, but also sports a faster CPU for decoding than the Xenon is capable of. I see no reason why I would need a better GPU for my CPU to perform more efficient decoding.



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MikeB said:
WilliamWatts said:
MikeB said:
WilliamWatts said:
No, lossless. Lossy compression of textures has a much higher ratio.

Sounds strange, why not do this compression in DX9 as well if it's lossless?

Because its not in spec. Textures are just xxx by xxx bitmaps. Very easy to compress those.

Not in the spec? Still sounds strange. Compression alogritms are actually pretty complex and my PC sports a DX9 capable graphics card, but also sports a faster CPU for decoding than the Xenon is capable of. I see no reason why I would need a better GPU for my CPU to perform more efficient decoding.

While it is not (necessarily) a popular feature, there have been GPUs that handled realtime texture decompression in order to ensure that memory is used efficiently.



MikeB said:

@ Reasonable

The realtime ingame cutscenes in MGS4 also take up a lot of space. PS3 exclusives make excellent use of Blu-Ray disc while also taking advantage of maximum compression (it makes sense as the Cell can decode faster than the extra time it takes to load from disc).

I think PS3 exclusives are and will take more and more advantage of realtime generated cutscenes, not because this could save space, but because you get a more seamless experience (same assets, better transitions).

God of War 3:

"Everything you see is 100% in-game. All camera features, including motion blur, run real-time in the cinematics and in-game."

"For this game we decided to try and blend in the cinematic sequences with the in-game sequences, so all models and assets are used for cinematics and for in-game.

“The Kratos that you will control will be the same you see in extreme close ups, no smoke and mirrors, no model switching. There is no CG cutscenes like the ones in previous GOW games. What you see in cinematics is what you get in-game, no difference. We didn’t want to have any jarring changes in detail between gameplay and story.”"

This game will take up a lot of Blu-Ray space.


All the famous exclusives like MGS4, UC2, Heavy Rain,FFXIII and now GOD of WAR 3 seems to have exploited Blue-Ray capacity to deliver the HD content to it's best. It would've definitely been a strain to compress all the data into even DVD9 or dual-layered.



HappySqurriel said:

Being that we’re (almost) 5 years into the generation, and DVD has been more than adequate for the vast majority of games, I think this mostly validates Microsoft’s choice of DVD as a media format; and indicates that a larger format (most likely a Blu-Ray based format) will be necessary for the next generation.


Well does this give a hint on M$ including Blue-Ray for their next console? Yeah DVD has been doing the work until 360 version of FFXIII highlighted some issues related to the HD content downgrade.



MikeB said:
WilliamWatts said:
MikeB said:
WilliamWatts said:
No, lossless. Lossy compression of textures has a much higher ratio.

Sounds strange, why not do this compression in DX9 as well if it's lossless?

Because its not in spec. Textures are just xxx by xxx bitmaps. Very easy to compress those.

Not in the spec? Still sounds strange. Compression alogritms are actually pretty complex and my PC sports a DX9 capable graphics card, but also sports a faster CPU for decoding than the Xenon is capable of. I see no reason why I would need a better GPU for my CPU to perform more efficient decoding.

Why would Xenon be decoding? The GPU decodes the textures and the texture compression is based upon the lowest level DX supported. DX11 is up to 10:1 compression but that will only be implemented on DX11 only code.



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GameAnalyser said:
HappySqurriel said:

Being that we’re (almost) 5 years into the generation, and DVD has been more than adequate for the vast majority of games, I think this mostly validates Microsoft’s choice of DVD as a media format; and indicates that a larger format (most likely a Blu-Ray based format) will be necessary for the next generation.


Well does this give a hint on M$ including Blue-Ray for their next console? Yeah DVD has been doing the work until 360 version of FFXIII highlighted some issues related to the HD content downgrade.

Thats not significant enough to worry about.



ymeaga1n said:
Naraku_Diabolos said:

Speaking of DVDs (not the ones used for the video game medium), has anyone noticed that stores have been selling recent releases of movies and whatnot on DVDs for cheap prices? My mom bought a crap-load of them, including the 6th Harry Potter movie for me as a Valentine's present. I told her I didn't want it because it wasn't Widescreen (it was Full Screen) and it wasn't on Blu-Ray. I told her that I'm waiting to buy all of the Harry Potter films (on a compilation collection; they have those at Sam's Club, AND on Blu-Ray) on Blu-Ray. Plus, I've noticed how shitty some of my regular DVDs are when I play them on my laptop's Blu-Ray player.


Your mom got you a gift for Valentine's day??


LOL'd



GameAnalyser said:
HappySqurriel said:

Being that we’re (almost) 5 years into the generation, and DVD has been more than adequate for the vast majority of games, I think this mostly validates Microsoft’s choice of DVD as a media format; and indicates that a larger format (most likely a Blu-Ray based format) will be necessary for the next generation.


Well does this give a hint on M$ including Blue-Ray for their next console? Yeah DVD has been doing the work until 360 version of FFXIII highlighted some issues related to the HD content downgrade.

Being that we should probably expect 2 to 4 times as much texture and geometry data on high-end next generation games as we see on current HD console games, I don’t think there ever was much doubt that we would see an end to DVD as the primary media format for any next generation console. While I think this might mean all manufacturers will use Blu-Ray or a derivative format, it is entirely possible that another format could be chosen; and one possibility is a memory based format being that you could (probably) deliver a game on a 4GB/8GB flash-card today and flash memory capacity follows Moore’s law (meaning that by the time the consoles launch an 8GB/16GB card would be possible, and by the end of the generation 64GB/128GB cards would probably be available)



HappySqurriel said:
GameAnalyser said:
HappySqurriel said:

Being that we’re (almost) 5 years into the generation, and DVD has been more than adequate for the vast majority of games, I think this mostly validates Microsoft’s choice of DVD as a media format; and indicates that a larger format (most likely a Blu-Ray based format) will be necessary for the next generation.


Well does this give a hint on M$ including Blue-Ray for their next console? Yeah DVD has been doing the work until 360 version of FFXIII highlighted some issues related to the HD content downgrade.

Being that we should probably expect 2 to 4 times as much texture and geometry data on high-end next generation games as we see on current HD console games, I don’t think there ever was much doubt that we would see an end to DVD as the primary media format for any next generation console. While I think this might mean all manufacturers will use Blu-Ray or a derivative format, it is entirely possible that another format could be chosen; and one possibility is a memory based format being that you could (probably) deliver a game on a 4GB/8GB flash-card today and flash memory capacity follows Moore’s law (meaning that by the time the consoles launch an 8GB/16GB card would be possible, and by the end of the generation 64GB/128GB cards would probably be available)


it would work but discs are extremely cheap, while that would be fairly cheap it would have to be many times more expensive than a disc.  I guess they could charge less for a console that doesn't include a disc drive though.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

You could use as many dvd:s you like, if games would use installation like PC games. That would also help development as hard drives are faster than any optical drive as well as it would help transition to downloadable games.