Ah, I thought you had some different source for the numbers. Nevermind.

I guess us European don't exist eh Montana ;) or the rest of the world for that matter.

We don't have reliable software numbers for Europe/Others so we don't know but at the moment Europe is the DS's strongest market and is an average market for Xbox 360 hardware wise so it could lead to it going either way software wise as the ultra hardcore 360 probably has a better attach rate than the more casual DS (more casual in that there are not only hardcore DS gamers like me but casual ones too).

In any case all those feeling threatened by the Wii and casual games are like little kids whose parents just had a baby; you get less attention because you are the older sibling and the infant is more fragile so you complain and try to get noticed but just because there is another kid doesn't mean your parent is going to let you starve to death, especially when the other kid is bringing in more money for the household.

i have spent playing video games much more since wii came out i think it has helped alot

yeah it could be the browser alot of times when mine doesnt work it add a ? at the end and it works

There's only one problem.  I don't care about graphics.  I care about gameplay, story, and depth.  Who said anything about graphics?  LOL, my avatar pretty much advertises that I care about depth... and graphics mean nothing considering it was two years outdated the day it was released.

When I brought up Michael Bay, I was referring to mindless movie making for the masses.   You can replace Michael Bay with any crappy summer blockbuster movie director.  You can replace it with mindless Freddie Prince jr chic flicks.  You can replace it with Wayne Bros movies.  You can replace it with anything that's crap... take your pick.

Well, I learned from my mistakes.  I'll never question anything having to do with the Wii.  The Wii is the end all of gaming.  Sorry, I didn't know the rules.

Later... 

"The problem is you don't care about actually listening to someone else's opinoin... you just want to take any opportunity to point out someone else's misspelling or mistakes. I bring up a question, and instead of discussion, there are personal attacks."

Apparently neither do you.

You originally asked if we could imagine if most games were Bay type games and he basically answered yes he could because today's games are mostly bay type games.

He did give you discussion fodder but instead of arguing how most of the current crop of game is of Scorsese caliber as opposed to it being Bay caliber (which seems to be your point) you seem to argue that by saying "Michael Bay" you didn't mean graphic as you don't care about them, thus avoiding his contention that current games are mostly Michael Bay, Freddie Prince jr, Wayne Bros... movies.

You then end your post with some passive aggressive behavior.

So instead of becoming aggressive why don't you take a deep breath and explain to us why you think that today's games are more Scorsese like that Bay/... like. After all, you might like System Shock 2 but there probably is less than 1 game in 30 that are as deep so you liking it does not add weight to your argument that most games are scorsese like today.

The problem with comparing the emerging games market to the music and movie markets is that in terms of being a vibrant industry, both artistically and commercially, its the old, dying games market which is more comparable to the music and movie industries.

Music and movies have been run into the ground by fat cat studios who don't understand their own industries. Though they may have been artists in the past, now they simply control the means of distribution. They blindly stifle art in favor of formula. And they are stagnant saleswise and artistically.

Just like last gen. There were a few massive artistic and commercial breakthroughs like Grand Theft Auto or the Sims, but if you actually check the sales charts, you'll see the next biggest breakthrough franchises were the likes of Need for Speed and Medal of Honor--certainly comparable to Michael Bay flicks. Activision countered with Spiderman and Tony Hawk. Madden, FIFA, Tom Clancy all grew more and more bloated. For God's sake, look at what was driving that "growing revenue before the Wii." Here's your market full of Scorseses, folks:

http://vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=&console=PS2&publisher=&sort=Total

Entertainment industries often go through great artistic periods and great commercial periods at the same time. For example movies at the end of the Great Depression, and in music with the emergence of Rock'n'Roll.

Certainly movies like Snow White and Gone with the Wind or artists like Elvis Presley and James Brown showed artistic breakthrough, along with rising to unholy heights of popularity and destroying the establishment that existed before them.

Even though fanboys mock them, massively popular, industry-changing games like Nintendogs, Brain Age and Wii Sports are already also considered massive artistic breakthroughs. Look at the awards Wii Sports won. Listen to people who know what they're talking about break down the impecable game design theory implemented in Nintendogs.

But have Nintendo created their Gone with the Wind yet? That movie came out in 1939. It sold around 200 million tickets in America. The population of America was around 130 million. And it is still considered one of the greatest--and best--movies of all time.

Whatever the comparable accomplishment within gaming is, THAT is what Nintendo wants to create. And if they follow their current path, they cannot be withheld from it. Wait. And. Watch.

I really don't think that Microsoft or Sony thought that gaming was going to be a big thing for the future, but rather just a catalyst to get them where they wanted. Sony was trying to push the focus toward an electronic powerhouse to take over the home entertainment center, Microsoft wanted to use 360 to extend media center and help leverage their own plans to have an integrated computer run household.

Nintendo was the only ones betting the farm on games. I believe that Sony and Microsoft even said that gaming was on the way out and not as big of a deal as it used to be, though I don't remember where or when it was said because it has been a few years since I read it.

As I see it, games would eventually have molded into a new form as a side show to movies, music, and other more popular forms of entertainment. These major players, MS and Sony would gladly see gaming take a backseat as long as their plans followed through. For Nintendo, though, games are all they know and they can't let it's whole existence, their "baby" and our passion eventually phase itself out.

Games wouldn't ever completely "go away." That just isn't happening, but they would eventually become niche with only a very few titles getting any spotlights, like the occasional Madden, Guitar Hero, or if another surprise hit comes along to temporarily extend game industry hopes, but eventually it would settle into a bland and overlooked hobby to a select few who remembered the good old days.

This might not have happened for another 2 or 3 generations, but with the way Nintendo was loosing fanbase, they needed to make the change NOW or they might not have had enough respect left in the industry to pull off what they hope to accomplish by the end of this generation.

Oh and to contribute to "the Wii not selling as fast as the DS".... Montana, thats BS and you know it. We cannot predict the future for certain, but we can look at current trends and examine possibilities. Look at this comparison from launch to date and just for kicks I threw in the PS2 as well.

DS vs. Wii vs. PS2

It's currently not selling as well as the DS, what's not true about that?

That being said, what's ruining gaming is people sitting around being philosophical about (pardon my language) fucking video games instead of playing them.