I hope you don't mind me borrowing your post, I like it.

More the latter I think.  There have been members who have pointed out discrepancies with the numbers before, due to spreadsheet errors and the like, they were responded to and corrected.

this is more about the people that say "SORNY SAES 35M PS3 SOWLD, VGC SEZ 32M...VGChARTS IS GARBEDGE AND FAEK".

Pretty much this...also very good impersonation of them..

It's bad when noobs make the mistake, but when people board vets are spewing the same nonsense...it gets a very annoying...I say jsut slap them with a ban hammer, and that will make them stfu with that shit.

He wasn't impersonating.

yup, that was actually a direct quote from darth when he first joined XD jk

That's the problem. "That's a lot of consoles on shelves" is the crux of this behavior. The answer is YES, that is a lot, but there they are! ANother problem is that when people start saying that quote above, it just opens the door for the armchair speculators to come out and push that idea far beyond its value. "That's a lot of consoles on shelves" leads to "VGC undertrack OMG" etc etc.

I think the point of the matter is that our members who conscientiously make those threads are doing so to alert the staff about possible problems with the numbers in the rare case that something has been overlooked. The other members who haphazardly make similar threads are doing so as an accusation! Their is a big difference in tone and motive. When it comes down to it, Brett and TheSource know what they're doing. They know when there is a problem, they can see the discrepancies on their own. The only time a member should make a thread about numbers should be when that member has some deeper insight beyond "Sony/MS/Nintendo/NPD said..."

ALthough I assume the NPD threads are still a haven for debate, it's kind of insulting to suggest that we are the ones who are wrong, when NPD and others also extrapolate data. THere have been several times that NPD has altered its own numbers because they were wrong, and there have been several times when we had the most accurate data bar none.

*claps*

I like a good meltdown myself, but this just kept going..and going...and going. Some people get way too emotionally attached to the numbers, and even worse, they seem to think that they have some sort of control over the site and that bitching in unison will get the numbers changed in their favor.

Not really surprised though. Its been the same crowd moaning about the numbers since I signed up in 2007. Nice to see some power enforced here.

It should not be held to a standard. It is a free site which gives pretty accurate numbers on a weekly basis versus a monthly basis. The point of this site is that you get 4-5 reports a month rather than one. We fall in line with most other trackers but we do it more frequently, which is harder to do. That in itself is merit, and more than worth the price.

Like I said, NPD threads will most likely still be open for debate to take place. There is no limitation on that. Ioi is not putting restriction against saying "Hey, I think NPD is more accurate". Certainly, that is your right to say. However, there is no reason to keep bringing up what each company says is sold and saying that you have doubts about our numbers, or starting needless discussions about how you think our numbers should look.

While you bring up a good point about using official numbers to validate vgc numbers, you have to understand that these numbers fluctuate for many different reasons and a simple ratio based equation will never work in your favor. THinking that shipped number are supposed to be 2M at any given time or some other measurement is folly. Again, the problem is that people think they know better than ioi or source, and that is the root of all this frustration. Sure there will always be a need to explain how the numbers work, which is why I suggested that instead of a ban, there should be a warning and direction to read "stickied" forum notes, but I agree that recitivists should meet some penalty, not because I care about Brett, but because for every thread questioning the numbers, countless better, more interesting and relevant threads are bumped out of the hot topics list, and additionally, it creates an atmosphere of suspicion which I don't care to see either.

I started out a similar way, which is why I think people should get a more tolerable treatment. The shipped vs sold model was explained to me and I just didn't get it. Since then, I've tried very hard to help people understand in a manner that reflected the courtesy that I received. At some extent it does get very frustrating, and I'm really sorry that I once did it myself.

Also, last week, Mr. Dille of Sony said that sales numbers were such and such for 360 and PS3. Ioi kindly explained what Dille must've been smoking and yet the controversy continued with comments such as "let's wait for NPD numbers". I think it's kind of insulting, and relates back to your question above about what standard VGC should be held to. IMO, none of us should be allowed to hold VGC to any standard because that implies that they answer to us. Which they don't. They answer to whoever pays them. The numbers are always in line, they come out more frequently than any other, and they respond to comments and questions quickly and kindly without most of them even being paid to do so.

Lastly, it looks very unprofessional to have so many members trying to discredit the site. It is time to put a stop to it.