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Forums - Gaming Discussion - In-depth comparison of the big three's motion controllers.

dahuman on 03 June 2009
wenlan said:
thank for your answer, jetrii

correct me if i am wrong
so basically, eye toy is also the device to detect the LED light coming out of both wands
but for the wii, the camera (or detector) is actually built inside of the Wiimote, and the light coming out of the sensor bar

does it mean using wiimote is more suitable to play games with a group of people, because each Wiimote detects the same light source
but for eyetoy/wand, each player has to hold a wand with LED light that has different wavelength
is that right?

That depends on what you are playing, if you are talking about games with a crosshair for aiming, that's how the Wiimote would work, otherwise, no. The Wiimote works on a completely different concept as a gaming device vs a camera detection systeam.



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jetrii on 03 June 2009
wenlan said:
thank for your answer, jetrii

correct me if i am wrong
so basically, eye toy is also the device to detect the LED light coming out of both wands
but for the wii, the camera (or detector) is actually built inside of the Wiimote, and the light coming out of the sensor bar

does it mean using wiimote is more suitable to play games with a group of people, because each Wiimote detects the same light source
but for eyetoy/wand, each player has to hold a wand with LED light that has different wavelength
is that right?

Sony claimed 1:1 motion capture so I am going to believe them. If they can do it for 1 wand, I don't see why it would be a problem for 4 wands. 



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dahuman on 03 June 2009
jetrii said:
dahuman said:
uh, so I was right on the ball park when I said it was an advanced camera that captures at high frame rate at a good resolution with it being software driven for the most after all =_=; , and yes I'm aware that the zcam had IR sensing.

No, you are completely out of the ballpark. This simply cannot be done with a normal camera and requires very advanced hardware. Ignore the camera in Natal, it is only being used so you can see yourself. None of the tracking uses the camera at all, it is all done with the 3D depth sensor. If you hold an oject in front of a normal camera, it can't tell you how large or how far the object it. Natal is capable to tell how you far the object, how big it is, the shape, etc. It basically creates a 3D model of the object and detects its movements. 

then you need at least 2 Natals to take advantage of the tech, front and back to at least capture the 3D movement more accurately across the board?



jetrii on 03 June 2009
Staude said:
the natal may be more advanced.. infact yes it is, but the ps eye can do a lot of the same things that it can. Just look at eye pet.

For very basic things like this, yes, both technologies are similar. However, if you wanted to scan yourself into a game, a normal camera like the EyeToy would produce a flat and completely fake looking imagine while the 3D sensor in Natal can produce a 3D model that looks like you. The same is true about scanning objects. When you start to get into more advanced features, the EyeToy is not advanced enough.



Good news Everyone!

I've invented a device which makes you read this in your head, in my voice!

jetrii on 03 June 2009
dahuman said:
jetrii said:
dahuman said:
uh, so I was right on the ball park when I said it was an advanced camera that captures at high frame rate at a good resolution with it being software driven for the most after all =_=; , and yes I'm aware that the zcam had IR sensing.

No, you are completely out of the ballpark. This simply cannot be done with a normal camera and requires very advanced hardware. Ignore the camera in Natal, it is only being used so you can see yourself. None of the tracking uses the camera at all, it is all done with the 3D depth sensor. If you hold an oject in front of a normal camera, it can't tell you how large or how far the object it. Natal is capable to tell how you far the object, how big it is, the shape, etc. It basically creates a 3D model of the object and detects its movements. 

then you need at least 2 Natals to take advantage of the tech, front and back to at least capture the 3D movement more accurately across the board?


That would only be true if you had a 3D TV also. Since the TV is only displaying 1 side of you, natal only needs to capture you from the front. If you hide one arm behind your back, and the character on the screen also hides one arm behind his back, does it matter if it can't see you wiggling your fingers around?

Good news Everyone!

I've invented a device which makes you read this in your head, in my voice!

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dahuman on 03 June 2009

well now I know why "the bottom of my shoe, BAM!" didn't work.



jetrii on 03 June 2009
dahuman said:
well now I know why "the bottom of my shoe, BAM!" didn't work.

Yeap, the software still needs some tweaking. However, that is entirely a software problem. The actual hardware to do that exists. 



Good news Everyone!

I've invented a device which makes you read this in your head, in my voice!

dahuman on 03 June 2009
jetrii said:
dahuman said:
jetrii said:
dahuman said:
uh, so I was right on the ball park when I said it was an advanced camera that captures at high frame rate at a good resolution with it being software driven for the most after all =_=; , and yes I'm aware that the zcam had IR sensing.

No, you are completely out of the ballpark. This simply cannot be done with a normal camera and requires very advanced hardware. Ignore the camera in Natal, it is only being used so you can see yourself. None of the tracking uses the camera at all, it is all done with the 3D depth sensor. If you hold an oject in front of a normal camera, it can't tell you how large or how far the object it. Natal is capable to tell how you far the object, how big it is, the shape, etc. It basically creates a 3D model of the object and detects its movements. 

then you need at least 2 Natals to take advantage of the tech, front and back to at least capture the 3D movement more accurately across the board?

That would only be true if you had a 3D TV also. Since the TV is only displaying 1 side of you, natal only needs to capture you from the front. If you hide one arm behind your back, and the character on the screen also hides one arm behind his back, does it matter if it can't see you wiggling your fingers around?

that depends on what games you are trying to create, now I know how it actually works, I think this is flawed for gaming in general and is only good for certain things, that's disappointing.



jetrii on 03 June 2009
dahuman said:
jetrii said:
dahuman said:
jetrii said:
dahuman said:
uh, so I was right on the ball park when I said it was an advanced camera that captures at high frame rate at a good resolution with it being software driven for the most after all =_=; , and yes I'm aware that the zcam had IR sensing.

No, you are completely out of the ballpark. This simply cannot be done with a normal camera and requires very advanced hardware. Ignore the camera in Natal, it is only being used so you can see yourself. None of the tracking uses the camera at all, it is all done with the 3D depth sensor. If you hold an oject in front of a normal camera, it can't tell you how large or how far the object it. Natal is capable to tell how you far the object, how big it is, the shape, etc. It basically creates a 3D model of the object and detects its movements. 

then you need at least 2 Natals to take advantage of the tech, front and back to at least capture the 3D movement more accurately across the board?

That would only be true if you had a 3D TV also. Since the TV is only displaying 1 side of you, natal only needs to capture you from the front. If you hide one arm behind your back, and the character on the screen also hides one arm behind his back, does it matter if it can't see you wiggling your fingers around?

that depends on what games you are trying to create, now I know how it actually works, I think this is flawed for gaming in general and is only good for certain things, that's disappointing.

All of these technologies are limited. The Wiimote limits you to hand movements, your legs are completely useless. Sony's technology limits you to your hands also. If you kick, it can tell you are kicking but it can't know how fast you are kicking, exactly how far out your leg reaches, etc. 

I am sure we will see great party games/cool apps that make great use of all 3 technologies. :D

 

EDIT: Alright, really going this time. I have work in 5 hours. I'll check the thread in the morning.



Good news Everyone!

I've invented a device which makes you read this in your head, in my voice!

dahuman on 03 June 2009

well, like I said in another thread, it'd only be truly great if they combine everything, good luck with that though. 4 Natals, Wiimotes/WM+ with nunchuck at least. So far the most practical is still the Wiimote with it's design imo and I can see why Nintendo made the controller that way more and more clearly.