Mnementh said:
Rationality wouldn't be rational if it avoids taking things into account. And the conception the world would be better off with less people is just simply wrong. That is called Malthusianism, after Thomas Robert Malthus who laid out the idea in an 1798 (!) essay of his. I can't understand why this idea persists, because according to Malthus we should've seen societal breakdown a hundred years ago. The thing Malthus didn't understand is, that more people also produce more ideas and therefore a lot of progress, which in turn is good for us. There are other factors involved to make it work, like education and basic living, but in contrast to what you claim, Malthusianism is exactly *not* rational, as it clashes with reality.
This also isn't at all rational. That is because the relation you lay out is very short term thinking and avoids facing long term consequences. A society that accepts torturing results in a lot of mistrust and would overall work a lot worse. So again, torturing to prevent short term bad things is irrational, it is after all not drivven by Ratio, but by emotion, one of the strongest emotions there is: fear. Also evidence shows that torture often results in false information, so it would be mostly useless to add.
Again, anything that excludes valid things from your considerations isn't rational at all. Rationality is exactly that you look behind your biases and blind spots, and that means it is the rational stance to include all variations in considerations, otherwise how could it be rational if the thinking doesn't reflect the reality of the world (and excluding people that are not average is denying the realities of the world).
Again: humanism is a rational movement. So it is rational to include humanism. The reality is, that the crimes of the history and the world there the result of misapplied emotions: fear, anger, despair, greed, hubris, contempt, condescension. Emotions are a product of our evolution and as such work well enough for basic survival — in the world they evolved in. Mostly that means small groups. We aren't made for big societies with thousands and millions of people living together. This is used against us: PR of big companies and propaganda permanently uses emotions against our best interests. That said, we are after all emotional beings. So the rational thing is also to consider this.
I fully agree on accelerator. That already implies that it is up to us how we use it. I can take another example of a technology: cars. Edward Bernays working for oil companies convinced the US government to invest in road infrastructure instead of public transport. This transformed the US into a country made for cars, not for people. You have cities there you can't walk, letting your kid walk or bike to school seems crazy to an american. The americans invented the crime "jaywalking", as in being a nuisance for cars. In comparison european cities are walkable, many kids walk to school or take the bicycle. There is plenty of public transport. And many european cities have core areas, where cars are banned altogether. The same technology - cars - different outcomes. It depends on how we use it. I cannot recommend the story Manna by Marshall Brain enough. Crazy to think it was written in 2003 already, more than 20 years ago. The software described in it - Manna - is not at all like LLMs. But the societal impact is spot on. But this story has a very important subtitle: "Two Views of Humanity’s Future". It lays out that it is our use of the technology, the societal parameters around it that decide the outcome. The technology itself is neutral, it supports either societal structure. In this time of AI usage I cannot recommend reading this more, it is a relatively short read and completely free to read on the internet: https://marshallbrain.com/manna So yes, LLMs and current AI is rapidly accelerating our societal development. This puts pressure on us to fix the problems we have. But these are our problems and the developments would happen with or without AI - just slower. We need to fix our world, and now! |
Humans have been rationalizing war crimes, torture, reducing / displacing population for all recorded history. Trump is rationalizing his war on the ME with one mantra he repeats hundred times a day "Iran can not have a nuclear weapon" and with that he rationalizes every terrible thing he's done. Who says AI won't do the same, with even less emotion. Who says AI would not have nuked Iran already when given the instruction "Iran can not have a nuclear weapon".
Rationality is the quality of basing beliefs and decisions on reason, logic, and empirical evidence rather than emotion or intuition.
That can have positive effects, excluding racism from decisions, yet the evidence is all around us, banker wars for resources, it's the rational decision to keep a stranglehold over the world. It's rational decisions that lead to wars, despite the media and politicians using people's emotions to go along with it.
We don't need more acceleration, too much change too fast is far more dangerous and destructive. Btw Europe still has a car problem, congested, pollution, urban sprawl, nearly 20K traffic deaths yearly.
"it is our use of the technology, the societal parameters around it that decide the outcome."
Indeed, who is controlling AI is who determines where society will go. It's the same people that are orchestrating / funding and going along with resource wars / worship unbridled capitalism and don't give a crap about people.
AI is a tool and I don't trust those wielding it at all.
As example, would the world have been better off with nuclear technology? Sure it accelerated growth a bit with nuclear power plants, but those in power used it to take the world hostage and still do. The 2 nukes on Japan were not necessary at all yet rationalized away as a future deterrent. That same rationalization has now persuaded 'the deranged occupant of the white house' to seal the fate of millions of people. (Hunger/starvation will increase killing millions as the outcome of this folly)
Yes we need to fix our world, tech billionaires with their data centers are not going to do it. But they can accelerate the fall of US empire and civilization in general. International law has already been dismantled out of self-dense rational.
