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badskywalker on 19 November 2025
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shavenferret said:
badskywalker said:

Because American born Citizens have never, ever committed any act of mass violence against random strangers. 

As someone who lives in America and grew up knowing a few Muslims and went to college with many, the hate towards gays and restrictions on women don't really exist with the younger generation. Hell the restrictions on women aren't even that common once I got to college. Further, I know many members of the LGBT community growing up, and I wasn't allowed to mention their sexual orientation, partner, and had to deadname some in front of their parents due to the fear they had. Hell, my current partner is bisexual and I'm not allowed to mention it to her mother. These were mostly white deeply Christian families, not all, but most.

Let me be clear, not all white christian families were like this growing up, however there were many, many of them

You could make the case about the horrible and terrible things that people in 1950s Americans did to gays and minorities.

You paint all Muslims as being a the same person, with the same ideaologies of their governments. Tell me, should I conflate your political and social positions as being the same as your government and your community? Shall I scour every single law on the books of your government, every action taken by everyone of your religion as being an action by you? Might you be so kind to offer up your religion and home country so that I can blame everything that your government on you?

Your comments read as xenophobic to say the least.

  You are ignoring the difference here between America and how bad the middle east currently is and instead presenting a stilted argument by only mentioning the past when America was bad.  

Have any of these muslims been able to be practicing gays in the middle east?   I highly doubt that, if so then please name the country.  Even if he was able to get away with it in Dubai or the UAE or whatever, there is still the most hateful nations which happen to be the largest in the region.  

I also have a big dislike towards Christians or anybody who hates others for their religion.  They can all go to hell.  

You've missed the forest for the trees my friend. Your first paragraph was a call to not let muslims into the United States, as "[killing of gays] may get worse because regular americans aren't doing things like that." I assume the 'this problem' referred to the gay killings and not the Bourbon Street incident. I argued that not all Muslims agree with their governments and thus you should not assume they all hold the policy beliefs of their governments. I am not defending the current Middle East and do not think the current USA is as bad as the Middle East. I never claimed as much. My claim was that your grouping of all Muslims as being homophobic and sexist is incorrect. You are being islamaphobic. 

You claim to also hold disdain for evangelicals who punish LGBT. However your argument is that "regular" americans are not violent towards the LGBT community. However, Evangelicals make up a good chunk of the United States population, and is what many would argue is "regular" American. Many Evangelicals are abusive to their LGBT children, I know people who have gone through it. The problem of violence against LGBT people is not limited to muslims as you claim.

What is a "regular" American to you? I have to ask, because clearly you have an idea of one.


Further your argument against the idea that their can be plurality in the Muslim world essentially is it doesn't count because they don't make up the majority of muslims. Something like 10-20% of people in some Muslim States find Homosexuality to be an acceptable practice and there is a large variance in someone who would be upset to have a gay neighbor.
https://www.equaldex.com/surveys/acceptance-of-homosexuality-arab-barometer
https://www.equaldex.com/surveys/acceptance-of-homosexuals-as-neighbors

Are these majorities? No. But these surveys do show that their is diversity in opinion in the Mulim world, and that you shouldn't just outright assume they are all homophobic.