Imaginedvl said:
Kyuu said:
This isn't what I meant by optimization. A Series X game having lower fps due to higher resolution still means the game is optimized in the sense that Xbox's power is being expressed in some form. But overall, Xbox's significant advantage per "specs on paper" isn't being materialized in games, and the reason is people weren't reading the entire specs sheet, just the factors they deemed more important.
When Cerny explained PS5's design before launch, Digital Foundry challenged his claim that "faster GPU is superior to wider in key areas". DF made a comparison between two old GPU's with the same TLOPS figure, one of them was wide and slow, the other narrow and fast. They argued that wider was superior even when TFLOPS are equalized (though to be fair, they added a disclaimer that future tech like RDNA2 could play out differently). PS5 was thought to be an "a narrow 8~ TFLOPS machine boostclocked to 10.2". Significantly lower than Xbox's "wide 12.1 TFLOPS", and this is before factoring in the CPU and bandwidth differences.
It turns out that Xbox Series X had 3 problems: Low GPU clockrate, split RAM bandwidth speeds, and apparently a poorer API. Series X probably cost quite a bit more than PS5 to manufacture, and yet it wasn't universally better in every aspect. When PS5 came out, it was often described as "pushing above its weight". There is no such thing as pushing above its weight... people just overlooked its advantages or Series X's potential bottlenecks. Technology evolves and these theoretical figures don't tell us much.
The next top of the line Xbox will potentially cost hundreds of dollars more to manufacture and sell than a launch PS6. This should enable Microsoft to not give the PS6 any major hardware advantages that close the gap. I don't think optimization will do anything in this scenario.
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I think a lot of what you are saying makes sense. Esp. the fact that while the Series X is a bit more powerful on paper, it is not universally better in every aspect.
The bold part thought is weird to me :) Maybe I misunderstood you, but you are basically saying that for Microsoft to "close the gap" with whatever Sony will come out for the PS6, they have to spend more money to make the PU capable of doing the same thing? Are you assuming that Microsoft cannot simply use the same base as Sony, and if they put more money into it, it will simply be better? In short, you seem to believe that if Microsoft spends the same money as Sony on their hardware, it cannot be as good or better than whatever Sony will come out with. I find this weird :)
No fanboyism here, don't get me wrong. But if you look at it the other way around, Sony spent a truckload of money on the PS3, and in the end, it was the same scenario as with the Xbox Series X - PlayStation 5, just reversed. I just found your last statement equivalent to: "Whatever Sony does, if Microsoft wants to equal it, their solution needs to cost a hundred more"...
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Sony is doing R&D with AMD,... potentially altering the direction AMD gpus in future take, all for the sake of the Playstation.
Meanwhile Sony is a hardware company, that excel at just that, making good hardware.
And honestly Xbox doesn't have anyone like Mark Cerny.
Yes I trust Playstation to be better at min max'ing performance of hardware and hitting the sweetspot in terms of performance and price, and knowing what the future demands from game devs and studios are, and where hardware is going. Ei. not making mistakes or wasting costs on stuff that might not matter, design wise.
Xbox has MS behind them, and they have fantastic software engineers.
They have different strengths, as companies.
I don't think its outlandish to believe that if Xbox spends the same amount of money on hardware, as sony's playstation that the results could be worse. I kinda expect that outcome tbh. If it played out differently I would almost think of it as a "hat's off to you" moment (ei. well played, you did something unexpected).
There is also economics of scale at play here. Sony will likely have better relations with other hardware manufactures, and because of order sizes get cheaper prices pr units bought. These are not just easily overlooked details.
Sony learnt from the PS3.... they won't every f*** up like that again.
Like I expect sony to be better at hardware, because it plays to their strengths, and the "economics of scale" thing being in their favor. Don't you?
Last edited by JRPGfan - on 12 October 2025
