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SvennoJ on 27 June 2025
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purkjr said:
SvennoJ said:

The 'belief' is in the scientific process, critical thinking, which is how scientific claims get corrected and improved all the time. For progress.

Religion strives for certainty, stability, doesn't stimulate critical thinking rather the opposite. Against progress.


That's how religion and science are opposites. 

Science is far more damaging than religion, global warming, weapons of mass destruction, remote control industrial scale killing. But also made life much better, curing and extinguishing many diseases increasing avg life span by 55 years over the last 2,000 years.


I rather belief in Universal Human Rights and IHL than any particular religion for morality. Both religious and atheist countries ignore Human rights when it suits them, so can't say who is worse :/ Capitalism is.

OK, thanks for your thought-provoking answer!

I can see your point. I don't think I ever want something to do with religion which is keeping me dumb and is disencouraging critical thinking.

However...I'm just wondering which religion you are opposing to. I don't know many religions who argue against progress. Which disencourage critical thinking. In fact: did you know the 'scientific process" you are referring to, is derived from deep-rooted christian thinking? Did you know the first universities emerged from cloisters?Did you know those 'Universal Human Rights' are not so universal but stem from christian theology, especially from the belief that every human is created in the image of God? To cut things short: I have the feeling you are separating things which cannot be so easily separated.

Let me be clear: feel free to believe whatever you want. But I very much doubt that we are living in a world with two kinds of people: religious or rational. That doesn't make sense for religious scientists like me. It's not in line with the history of science. And, last but not least: why should faith be strictly non-rational? Many religious people have rational arguments for their faith.

OK, so far for now

Oh no you're absolutely right, it's not A or B, there is tons of overlap and monasteries have been the keepers of knowledge throughout history.

That's for all religions.



But you can't deny the inquisition and still today suppression of women and 'others' in many religions, including Christianity. It's not the church that fought for women's right to vote or be more than a house wife. 

The Scientific Revolution was a period of major scientific advancements and paradigm shifts that occurred primarily during the 16th and 17th centuries in Europe.It marked a transition from a largely Aristotelian and religious view of the world to a more empirical and mathematically based understanding of nature.This revolution involved significant developments in mathematics, physics, astronomy, biology, and chemistry, transforming how people viewed the natural world.

Was that driven by Christianity? Or a reaction to centuries of oppression by the Church.

While the Church played a vital role in preserving classical civilization, promoting education, and spreading Christianity, it also engaged in persecution, violence, and the suppression of dissent, particularly against minority groups and those who challenged its authority.

https://human.libretexts.org/Courses/American_River_College/HUM_300%3A_Classical_Humanities_Textbook_(Collom)/13%3A_Middle_Ages/13.08%3A_The_Medieval_Church

Religious practice in medieval Europe (c. 476-1500 CE) was dominated and informed by the Catholic Church. The majority of the population was Christian, and “Christian” at this time meant “Catholic” as there was initially no other form of that religion. The rampant corruption of the medieval Church, however, gave rise to reformers such as John Wycliffe (l. 1330-1384 CE) and Jan Hus (l. c. 1369-1415 CE) and religious sects, condemned as heresies by the Church, such as the Bogomils and Cathars, among many others. Even so, the Church maintained its power and exercised enormous influence over people's daily lives from the king on his throne to the peasant in the field.

The Church regulated and defined an individual's life, literally, from birth to death and was thought to continue its hold over the person's soul in the afterlife. The Church was the manifestation of God's will and presence on earth, and its dictates were not to be questioned, even when it was apparent that many of the clergy were working far more steadily toward their own interests than those of their god.

A dramatic blow to the power of the Church came in the form of the Black Death pandemic of 1347-1352 CE during which people began to doubt the power of the clergy who could do nothing to stop people from dying or the plague from spreading. Even so, the Church repeatedly crushed dissent, silenced reformers, and massacred heretical sects until the Protestant Reformation (1517-1648 CE) which broke the Church's power and allowed for greater freedom of thought and religious expression.


And still today Christianity is pushing the creation myth while trying to ban evolution theory from schools.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/03/darwin-theory-evolution-schools-earth
https://theconversation.com/politicians-step-up-attacks-on-the-teaching-of-scientific-theories-in-us-schools-235083