| TheRealSamusAran said: but his NATO allies fed him with delusions that Ukraine could actually defeat Russia in war, even though Ukraine was not allowed to user theirs weapons inside Russia because of nukes fear, and so this whole time Zelensky was not seeking to end the war, but to win the war, he never even attempted to strike any real deal with Russia. I am not talking about giving up territory, but did he even try to offer anything else, specially early on when Putin was more likely to accept something else? |
No they didn't. NATO has been pissing their pants the entire war. It was Ukraine's decision to fight back against Russia, even when NATO support was laughably poor, Ukraine has been technically fighting Russia since 2014 via Russian proxies in the Donbas while trying to diplomatically apply pressure to Russia after they stole Crimea off Ukraine in 2014!
Zelenskyy's approval rating was actually dropping pre-war in part due to Ukrainians believing he was being too compromising with Russia, there was a belief that Zelenskyy was preparing to surrender Donbas to Russia and being too soft with Russia. This is the same country that threw out one of their recent Presidents for being a Russian puppet via massive protests and violence. This was until Russia attacked Ukraine in a full scale invasion and Zelenskyy's approval rating then shot up once again as he refused to surrender to the modern day Hitler.
Ukraine fought back bravely when their support from NATO was far worse than it is now, Ukraine fought back when NATO refused to give them long-range missiles, modern MBTs, modern Jets, etc. Ukraine fought back because they had no other choice, it was fight back to defend their land, their freedom, or be slaughtered by Russia. Most other countries in the same position would do the exact same, as many countries did so against impossible odds during WW2 because if good doesn't stand up against evil and inspire others to do the same, that evil will spread.
They could have actually beat Russia if NATO's support wasn't so shit. It wasn't NATO that encouraged Ukrainians, it was Russia's utter shitshow of an invasion in the early stages, Russia by all accounts, on paper, should have steamrolled through Ukraine and took the capital with ease, instead they made a complete fuck up of their invasion and Ukraine pushed them back from Kyiv, Chernihiv, Sumy, Kharkiv and Mykolaiv before NATO support even got serious, it was Ukraine who inspired Ukraine to believe that they had a chance while NATO drip fed them shit and "escalation managed" instead of actually tried to help Ukraine win a war.
Ukraine's own allies that you are claiming gave Zelenskyy hope that he could win the war, told him that Kyiv would fall in a week and begged him to flee the country believing that he would be assassinated, does that really sound like NATO fooled Ukraine into thinking they could win the war? At the start it was the opposite, NATO was (publicly) telling Ukraine they didn't have a chance!
So this whole time Zelensky was not seeking to end the war
Zelenskyy has repeatedly attempted negotiations with Putin, as has the West, Macron was practically on his hands and knees begging Putin to stop which made him look pathetic and everyone was mocking him for it but it was in fact Zelenskyy who asked Macron to help him in trying to convince Putin to stop and Macron's display that got him mocked was actually on direction of Zelenskyy.
What deal would be acceptable to Russia? You say not to give up territory but Russia for the past 1-2 years have been saying they demand Ukraine surrenders Kherson, Zaporizhia, Donestk, Luhansk and Crimea and officially recognise these territories as Russia. His whole reason for invading in the first place is because he wants a land grab to expand the Russian empire. He literally had a goddamn map showing that Ukraine "doesn't exist" and "was always Russian" and Ukraine was never a threat to Russia but he strolled in and slaughtered them.
Zelenskyy had repeated attempts at negotiation with Putin, Ukrainian officials, as did the EU on behalf of Ukraine. They all failed. Putin ignores most attempts to negotiate or tries to drag things out to make it look like he is negotiating, he broke multiple ceasefires, he rarely backed down from maximalist goals.
There was a close deal where Ukraine made multiple concessions but due to Russia's Bucha Massacre enraging Ukrainians, their military failure on Kyiv and a certain few extra demands which would have made Ukraine defenceless, it too failed. Most Ukrainian polls say that Ukrainians would not be willing to compromise on their land. Even right now Ukraine is the only one accepting a total ceasefire while Russia has rejected it.
Part of being a good leader is knowing how choose your fights, and this was never a fight that Ukraine had a chance at winning.
We need to stop thinking Russia is a mythical entity that has never lost a war and is incapable of losing wars. Ukraine absolutely has a chance if it was supported properly by NATO. Even right now, nobody is "winning" it's effectively a stalemate, Russia has lost multiple major battles in this war; The Battle of Kyiv, Kharkiv Counteroffensive, Kherson Counteroffensive, and multiple other withdrawals due to pressure from Ukraine.
What Russia wants is Ukraine's total surrender and to make them defenceless in the future so that Russia can repair its military and try again, as they did with Chechnya, the Ukraine war didn't start in 2022, it started in 2014, it started with Crimea, Russia fucked up the initial invasion so bad they want a pause but one which makes Ukraine defenceless for when they return. Ukraine would have to weaken its military and be alone, Ukraine would have to surrender its territory and Ukrainians be abused and killed under Russian rule.
It's also worth noting that the only person polling higher than Zelenskyy in Ukraine right now is Zaluzhnyi, an extremely popular military general who fought during the war, there's a very high chance that if Zelenskyy is too compromising with Russia, it ends up with him being booted out of office and an even more militaristic person being put in charge.
Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 17 April 2025
