Why some open world games suck

[HoloDust]

Frogger said:

HoloDust said:

Zelda is gated open-world (you might find some calling that semi open-world). Which is, IMO, best way to do (mostly) linear narrative, yet with enough player freedom. It's shame that most modern devs just follow sales trends and are senselessly putting linear narratives into fully open worlds, often making unnecessary ludo-narrative dissonance.

Open world games do come from D&D - you either trust me on that one or you go do some research for yourself. It's just that initially it meant open-ended gameplay, which was indeed done on large "open-world" maps - which is very hard to next to impossible to do in any sort of narrative video game RPG without actual DMs. That is why, ever since first RPGs, you have stripped down "open-worlds" where map might be open, but narrative is not - those are limitations of video games, that, sooner or later, might be solved to a degree via AI DMs.

Again, your solution of fixing open world via overworld and underworld balance is very limited one, since not all games have those, nor do all games need to have that balance. But some do, and are better if they have it (3D Zeldas being clear example of games that have its balance off in either direction ever since OoT).

I don't know what gated open world means. The world isn't gated and it's not semi open.

Open world isn't about player freedom. It's about the way the map is designed. You're talking about something I'm not talking about. Story design or mission design or something. That's not what this thread is talking about. It's just talking about level design.

I don't think you are talking about what I am, so I don't trust you. You made the claim, so you have the burden of proof. RPGs have their roots in D&D, but not open worlds. I don't know why you're bringing up Dungeon Masters and linear story lines when I already said that that isn't what this thread is about. There may be a kind of game inspired by D&D, but that's not specifically the type of game this thread is talking about.

It may be a limited one for open ended games (I'm going to stop calling what you're talking about "open world" now), but it's not a limited one for open world games, which is what this game is about. I never said all games need that balance. I said most open worlds (not all open ended games) that suck suck because they don't have that balance.

Well, maybe you should broaden your knowledge and look up what gated open world means.
I'm not honestly into mood of giving a history lesson here about open world games and where they stem from...if you're choosing to believe they're not rooted in D&D, that's your choice.
And yes, you're talking about one very specific subtype of open-world games which indeed can be made better of worse with balancing "overworld" and "underworld". And no, most open world games don't suck because they don't have balance between those two, but for completely different reasons.